The Silence is Deafening

[Crankley]

For the last however long, I have read threads and posts by Remainers stating confidently that the Prime Minister wanted a No Deal, would get a No Deal. Here are just a few quotes. Some Remainers may recognise their own predictions:

'He is going to give us No Deal and then fuck off into the sunset with millons in bungs from his crooked mates,'

'I'm pretty certain on no deal...'

'I fully expect a No Deal Brexit.'

'Bojo will 'deliver' no deal and then F off into the sunset'

'Boris Johnson and your disingenuous divs - How dare you try and spin a NoDeal'

'He was elected to not get a deal and to make his supporters feel good about the fact the had stuck it to the man (or something).'

There are lots more if you want them.

Now he has obtained a deal, where are all the threads by remainers? Do any have the the guts to hold up their hand up and say 'I was wrong'?

Who is the you were ok?

I for one think that we should have a proper PR system, and yes, I do subscribe to the Electoral Reform Systems emails, so do take an interest. This would allow UKIP/Brexit/Farage's latest party to take seats. We would then be able to see how bloody useless they mostly are. See their behaviour in the EU Parliament.

The Tories will be OK forever with FPTP because it usually works in their favour.

@LurkingLeaver

UKIP got something like 13% of the vote in 2015, but only one seat. Then you were ok with the system, but now it's not going your way.....

You seem to be making assumptions about what I was/we were 'ok with'.

@AuldAlliance

now the parties can do what they promise, not just ask the EU.

Does this mean that you believe the Tories were prevented from keeping their electoral promises by the EU?
And what's the "asking" process referred to here?

@LurkingLeaver Just asking again.

I'm interested in this because it would imply, for instance, that the EU prevented Cameron from carrying out his manifesto promise to abolish the rule preventing UK subjects living abroad from voting in elections and referenda.

So this would mean that the EU, knowing that preventing Cameron from scrapping that rule would mean denying those most affected by the 2016 referendum result the right to participate in it, nonetheless went ahead and prevented him from keeping his promise and from aligning the UK with rules common to many EU member states.
How did the EU do this? Why?

It would also mean that the EU, aware that those people would be likely to vote Remain, prevented them from voting and thereby knowingly contributed to the Leave result.

That's so ingeniously perverse that I'm intrigued as to why you think they acted thus.

Why don't you set up your own 'Rejoin' party and channel your energy into that?. Is anyone doing that yet?

I know that it's easier to just get angry and vent on the internet but really nothing of any significance is achieved by that (or by marching and/or petitions for that matter).

If being out of the EU is going to be as crap as a lot of you say it will then, even working on the assumption that we have to join the euro, a rejoin party would be a shoe in (especially if, as you say, so many leavers have changed their minds).

Oh dear. Somebody still hasn't worked out what a sweet deal we had.

This is from a tweet that came up on the page from the Telegraph about Boris's sons drawing (think it was linked on here):

"Isn’t it totally bizzare that a gentleman like
@JacobReesMogg
can bridge the gap between the classes.
I’m from a pit mining village in the north east, working class and I view JRM as one of us.
It can be done. Unity, understanding, listen and hear is all it takes."

I think they must be winning elections because (just like Trump), they are pushing the populism narrative and people think they are "one of them". I have absolutely no idea why, because I can't see it myself! They've made the super rich "one of us" and anyone else (i.e. more liberal including media) is the metropolitan elite. How on earth did we get here? Unless we find the answer, we are going to be stuck with the fuckers forever, and we will never either get a more centre right Conservative party, or Labour won't get in.

@Lonelycrab

No point in arguing with stupid

Nope, although it’s quite amusing seeing how naive people can get. Guess this is where saying we don’t need experts gets you.

Very interesting article from Bloomberg posted in one of the other threads. What an almighty fucking mess this is going to be.

Can you post it here.

Bloomberg has been unilaterally excellent throughout Brexit.

Oops, wrong thread !

It’s not new though. The British have loved to defer to the upper classes forever, and the gentleman was supposed, in theory at least, to condescend politely towards the peasant. It’s the middle class arrivistes who the uppers were supposed to despise.

The social historian Keith Thomas writes about this in his fantastic book on manners in early modern England, ‘In pursuit of civility’.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/aug/08/in-pursuit-of-civility-by-keith-thomas-review

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

Why don't you set up your own 'Rejoin' party and channel your energy into that?. Is anyone doing that yet?

I know that it's easier to just get angry and vent on the internet but really nothing of any significance is achieved by that (or by marching and/or petitions for that matter).

If being out of the EU is going to be as crap as a lot of you say it will then, even working on the assumption that we have to join the euro, a rejoin party would be a shoe in (especially if, as you say, so many leavers have changed their minds).

We will rejoin eventually. But I'd think it will take 10 years minimum.

The EU is not going to want to get involved in taking the UK back while there is still hard right nationalism in government and the media and so much of the population is under their sway.

Hard right populism tends to suffocate under the weight of its own lies and fuck ups, if you look internationally. It always falls apart eventually but it's hard to say how long it will take.

It would also mean that the EU, aware that those people would be likely to vote Remain, prevented them from voting and thereby knowingly contributed to the Leave result.
That's so ingeniously perverse that I'm intrigued as to why you think they acted thus.

Although;

2018 -
"A court challenge over the legality of the EU’s Brexit negotiations brought by a 97-year-old war veteran and 12 other emigrant Britons has been rejected by the European court of justice in Luxembourg."

"Harry Shindler, who lives in Italy, and others who reside in various EU member states had argued that the referendum in 2016 was invalid because they and more than a million Britons living in the EU were deprived of a vote" ...

"There is a 15-year time limit on British emigrants being able to register as overseas voters. The government has said it will support a private member’s bill introduced by the Conservative MP Glyn Davies that would do away with that time restriction in future. Labour has refused to back the bill, saying it would involve too much administration."

www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/26/european-court-rejects-british-expats-brexit-referendum-harry-shindler

Interesting - more hints of an EU army in the future?

7 December -
"Europe must become more sovereign, says German ambassador to France."
"In an exclusive interview with EURACTIV Germany, the new German Ambassador to France, Hans-Dieter Lucas, spoke about the dynamic new phase of Franco-German relations and the need for a new strategic culture in European defence policy."

www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/interview/europe-must-become-more-sovereign-says-german-ambassador-to-france/

"Macron: Europe needs its own sovereignty in defence, even with new US government."

www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/macron-europe-needs-its-own-sovereignty-in-defence-even-with-new-us-government/

Although what, Clavinova?

Honestly, the c&p thing is wearing. State your point.

Are you suggesting that the 2018 ECJ verdict is meaningful in response to my queries about Cameron's inability to honour manifesto promises and whether the EU prevented that prior to 2016?
How?
Do you know what the judges based their verdict on?
Are we suggesting now that the Tories are prevented from implementing their manifesto promises by ECJ verdicts that have no precedent (as in the Shindler case) and have not yet actually taken place?
How does that work?

Are you suggesting that Labour saying in 2018 that they wouldn't support the belated private member's bill is relevant to Cameron's refusal to honour his own manifesto promise several years before and shows that (a) it was due him having to ask the EU before legislating or (b) the opposite?
How?
Why?

I am quite sure that had the UK still been in the EU, they and France would be fighting for the position of Top Dog in an EU Army. Well, now the field is clear for France. I don't suppose our 'Special relationship' with the US is going to give us any Top Dog position their either.

Interesting - more hints of an EU army in the future?

Unlikely, unless going in for a whole Treaty rewrite.

Finally, even the Brexshittiers are starting to realise just how far down shit creek they've been sold.

Brexit fisheries ‘deal’: It’s so bad we’d be better off staying in the EU

Honestly, the c&p thing is wearing. State your point.

I thought the article in the link was interestingly relevant - you don't have to agree, or even read it. Of course we already know that it was Jeremy Corbyn who scupperred what might have been the 25 year rule for overseas voters;

Hansard - Mr.Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) 1989

"In a spirit of generosity, I tabled an amendment specifying 10 years. On reflection, I was probably a little too generous. I am sure that the Minister will be grateful for that and will accept my amendment."
"Twenty-five years is excessive in the extreme. People who have been resident abroad, working abroad, earning money abroad and probably not paying taxes abroad are not likely to be interested in politics in this country." "The Government's motive is to find a pool of voting fodder for the Tory party in the tax havens around the world."

"They are not interested in democratic movements in this country, because they have set themselves up in some other country and earn their money there..."

But at least it ends up:
We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Hansard - Mr.Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) 1989

Yes this is true, but since 2010 Cameron was in Government, and it was his Manifesto pledge to re-enfranchise the overseas electorate - which is not unreasonable if you expect them to pay UK taxes.

So do a bit more cutnpaste Clavinova to tell us why Cameron never got round to it. It might not have gone his way, the expats/immigrants on the Costas still might have voted Leave.

No, she'll do a cutnpaste on Corbyn talking to his vegetables or some other such irrelevant rubbish. And not state a point. Because she hasn't usually got one.

It's all about the noise...

I like that Clavinova researches on Google and comes up with interesting articles. Better and less boring than all the predictable same old stuff by remoaners on these threads.

can you post it here

Sure.

www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-28/despite-last-minute-trade-accord-u-k-s-brexit-ordeal-is-far-from-over

So BJ is punching the air in victory.
The ERG I predict will throw their toys out the pram. Who is right?

Not my circus and they’re definitely not my monkeys

@Mamamia456

I like that Clavinova researches on Google and comes up with interesting articles. Better and less boring than all the predictable same old stuff by remoaners on these threads.

Why not start your own thread for random cut and pastes.

@Lonelycrab

can you post it here

Sure.

www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-12-28/despite-last-minute-trade-accord-u-k-s-brexit-ordeal-is-far-from-over

So BJ is punching the air in victory.
The ERG I predict will throw their toys out the pram. Who is right?

Not my circus and they’re definitely not my monkeys

Thanks! It's an excellent summary of the quagmire we are now in.

Regardless, relations with Europe — Britain’s neighbor of 450 million people, and by far its most important economic and security partner — will always dominate U.K. politics. Brexit means managing this relationship from the outside, dealing as an inferior with an EU preoccupied with solidarity, rather than from the inside, with the additional rights and opportunities that provided

Amusing interpretation of the word "research " @Mamamia456 . Like the European Research Group.