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Brexit

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...to ask Brexit supporters on here whether they might now be having second thoughts?

135 replies

SafferUpNorth · 10/12/2020 10:49

Just that really. Would love to hear from Brexiteers on here whether they still believe in 'taking back control' at all costs, now that it's pretty clear there will be no deal, and the practical and economic implications will be huge...

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 11/12/2020 07:29

It was Blair's choice to allow foreign workers. EU didn't make him. Every government since then could have reversed that.
For what it's worth, when our glorious NHS was created, we didn't have enough workers willing to train so people like my Mum came from Ireland as well as the Windrush generation from the Caribbean.
That's what we do instead of investing in students here.

LurkingLotus · 11/12/2020 07:52

Just typed out a big explanation, but deleted it. I could actually hear the insults in my mind from remainers for points they will never agree with.

Why would I post my thoughts, to then spend the day having insults thrown at me?!

Think I'll stick to lurking.

bellinisurge · 11/12/2020 08:05

Diddums

KenDodd · 11/12/2020 08:37

most of the leave voters I know now regret it as they feel they were lied to.

And did they vote Tory in subsequent elections to 'get Brexit done'?

Thing is, it wasn't just one vote, Brexit could have been stopped if enough Leave voters had changed their minds and voted accordingly in elections afterwards, they didn't, they voted repeatedly for Brexit supporters. They even continued to vote for Brexit knowing it could result in a return to violence in NI. Any consequences are 100% on them. If the sunlit uplands and everything else we were told Brexit would be (exact same benefits) are delivered I will apologise wholeheartedly and gratefully and admit I was wrong and they were right.

PurpleHoodie · 11/12/2020 08:50

But it's not just a difference of opinion. Leavers voted to remove my European citizenship, destabilise my country, disrupt the food supply, sour relations with our largest trading partner, remove the basis of many of our legal contracts and destroy UK jobs. And if they weren't mislead or lacking understanding that means they did that deliberately and knowingly. So frankly, vitriol is justified.

PurpleHoodie · 11/12/2020 08:51

07:29bellinisurge

It was Blair's choice to allow foreign workers. EU didn't make him. Every government since then could have reversed that.

Yes.

MrsMiaWallis · 11/12/2020 08:55

@MarmaladeTeepee

I voted remain but most of the leave voters I know now regret it as they feel they were lied to. However, I believe if remain had won, the leave argument would still be gaining momentum right now, with the EU being blamed for everything that's wrong in the UK and another referendum would have been inevitable with leave winning that one. For me leave was always going to be the ultimate winner as no one knew exactly what it would entail so could be based on any number of ideal scenarios, it's only now we can truly see the disruption it brings.

I think brexit just needs to be concluded now so we can all adjust to the new normal. However, my main fear is that this government lacks the competence, experience and vision to maximise any new opportunities brexit gives us and that's going to make the whole experience far more miserable.

I agree with your post.
Miljea · 11/12/2020 10:23

"Back in the 90s, a friend of mine wanted to become a nurse and could not get a place on a course. Why? Because the number of places available had been cut to the bone by Blair, who was instead 'importing' as many nurses as possible from the EU, all fully trained".

Well, 30 years later, where I work, the EU staff have gone, and have been replaced by Nigerians, Jamaicans and Indians. Some not so 'fully trained', I might add.

How is that the fault of the EU?

Maybe, just maybe it's the fault of successive right-learning or just plain Right Wing governments? With their short-term, under-cutting profiteering mindset?

Lay the blame where fault lies.

Theworldisfullofgs · 11/12/2020 10:26

Back in the 90s, a friend of mine wanted to become a nurse and could not get a place on a course. Why? Because the number of places available had been cut to the bone by Blair, who was instead 'importing' as many nurses as possible from the EU, all fully trained

I worked in health care in the 90s. That's not true. Where do people get this bollocks from?

Miljea · 11/12/2020 10:51

Actually, I voted Remain and I remain impressed by how assiduously they EU have defended themselves, refusing the bend to our whiny 'demands'. And smile sadly at how the EU's more or less steadfast, unwavering unity is being called 'bullying'.

But 'it's done.

Britain needs the kicking that is coming its way. It needs to be cut back to its 'natural size', that of being a small, damp island on the edge of a continent that it has pretty much despised and insulted throughout history. It needs to lose its places on top tables, afforded due to its history, not its current competence.

Having taken the action to leave one of the world's strongest trading blocks on the back of ignorance, lies, propaganda and blatant falsehoods, having once again voted in, and voted again for a government of public-schoolboys; Britain needs, like a naughty schoolboy, to take its punishment.

We may learn, and grow from it.

But it's rather more likely, given our ever growing wealth and power divide, that the rich I'll ultimately benefit, and the rest of us will find ourselves in a minimum waged, zero-houred, working 3 jobs in unsafe factories, living in all but in unregulated damp flats -future. Like most of us did in the glory days of Empire.

Yes, our GDP will increase, but we won't see that in our back pockets.

As for positive opportunities arising, we just do not subscribe to the social contracts that might bring this about.

We resent paying taxes, and don't care that the likes of Amazon pay all but none. We believe the poor are poor because they deserve it. We vilify benefit claimants. We see non-white people as a threat, not as a valuable resource. We don't actually care that vast numbers of our healthcare and services workers are imported, though we don't like the colour of their skin. Or having them live next door. We accept shit schooling for our kids, but shrug at tax-breaks for the better education of those who will grow up to rule us. We vote for governments that impose austerity on us. We sneer at any qualification that isn't a degree, however useless that expensive bit of paper is (while bitterly resenting those uppity degree-holders). We allow 'apprenticeships' in making coffee. We sit by and allow our government to deliberately underinvest in health care. We nod along vigorously when the red tops tell us who to hate today. We agreed it was the NHS nurses' pensions that caused the financial crash, not the government sponsored casino-style 'light touch' banking shenanigans.

We are not a country that has the sort of middle-ground socialist mindset that could use the 'opportunity' leaving the EU could possibly bring to 'level-up' the population.

We are not grown-up enough.

Theworldisfullofgs · 11/12/2020 11:01

Miljea

Absolutely right.

The great humbling.

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 11:03

I found that a bit depressing tbh. I don’t see us as a small damp island and that’s it.

Theworldisfullofgs · 11/12/2020 11:09

What are we then?

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 11:11

Well obviously you can go around lumpen with the small, damp island idea.

Other people will take great strides to move here because one of the most exciting and interesting cities is with moving to.

Or enjoy the country - I’ve only lived in London and like many others moved across the world.

People can be depressive though of course up to them.

Theworldisfullofgs · 11/12/2020 11:29

When thr implications for financial services hit, London won't be the same particularly plus covid.

What makes London interesting is its diversity. Ex londoner.
This is a populist act to reduce that

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 11:31

Diversity does help. Let’s see who gets in still.

Still love it not ready to be all depressive yet. Let alone actively want to see the country one lives in cut down to size. Crazy.

You left already due to Brexit? Where did you go?

KenDodd · 11/12/2020 11:59

I don't see much evidence of Leave voters changing their minds. I do think though when the can no longer ignore the tsunami of shit they're delivered on us all they will blame anything and everything EXCEPT Brexit and the people who sold it to them.

newsthump.com/2020/09/15/opinion-brexit-chaos-is-the-fault-of-absolutely-everyone-except-the-people-who-actually-voted-for-it/?fbclid=IwAR1GFQV6s8WIYzhwNJVKjHRWHiiZJ7TvXGfF-9DDZAFML9RlkjyoG19-6Nw

jj90914 · 11/12/2020 12:12

I found that a bit depressing tbh. I don’t see us as a small damp island and that’s it.

Me neither. I see us as a small damp island of morons, entitled morons, violent morons, drunken morons, and racist morons.

Hyperion100 · 11/12/2020 12:12

John Cleese's what have the Romans (EU) ever done for us:

Structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline
Cleaner air
Cleaner water
Cleaner beaches
Strongest environmental protections in the world
Lead free petrol
Restrictions on landfill dumping
Cheaper mobile charges
Cheaper air travel
Improved customer protections
A ban on use of growth hormones in meat
Food labelling
Break up of monopolies
Europe wide patent protection
No paperwork for export throughout the EU
Freedom to pick up a case and live in another country to work and study
Access to EU health services
Labour protections
Smoke free workplaces
Equal pay legislation
Improved animal welfare standards
EU funded research and development
European arrest warrant
Cross border policing
Increased living standards

jj90914 · 11/12/2020 12:13

they will blame anything and everything EXCEPT Brexit and the people who sold it to them

Of course. That’s what thick people do - blame others for their own failings.

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 12:14

@jj90914

I found that a bit depressing tbh. I don’t see us as a small damp island and that’s it.

Me neither. I see us as a small damp island of morons, entitled morons, violent morons, drunken morons, and racist morons.

Oh man how do people cope with such self hatred. Can you move somewhere else?

Have you lived anywhere else?

Kind of funny in a way - if not so odd

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 12:14

I voted remain btw

But really not ready to throw in towel as pp

Hyperion100 · 11/12/2020 12:18

I always like to keep in mind that pretty much nobody cared about the EU until they announced their tax evasion directive at which point the billionaire media owners like Richard Desmond, the Barclay brothers and Murdoch started ratcheting up the anti EU rhetoric and managed to convince a nation that they should all be angry a body that the UK makes up a very large part of.

jj90914 · 11/12/2020 12:18

Kind of funny in a way - if not so odd

Yea I can live somewhere else, I’ve lived in 3 different countries in the past, and I’m living in a 4th country now.

Although, you’ve taken my sarcastic joke a little too seriously.

However, I will say all the other countries I’ve lived in are vastly superior (apart from the US which was far far worse).

MarshaBradyo · 11/12/2020 12:20

Not really I did say sort of funny. But total sarcasm then better than not.

Where did you live that was superior?

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