Westminstenders: Off he pops to Brussels

[RedToothBrush]

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
There's no way Johnson has not already decided whether or not to concede on Level Playing Field. Which makes the trip to Brussels dressing. Whether it will dress a concession as "I have saved us" or No Deal as "I tried my best" remains to be seen. But the choice is already made.

Amanda Cole @amandajanecole
What's your gut feeling, will he put his job ahead of the country? Given his past self serving form?

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
I think he is so cornered - and has done so badly on Covid19 - his instinct will be one last, double-or-nothing throw of the dice. Only no deal does that.

The issue is that coming back with a deal will earn him much heckling and zero back-slapping from his peers. But no deal will earn him just as much heckling, but also plenty of back-slapping. What I don't know is just how ominous the departmental briefings he's getting are.

Its also worth noting the following:

Mujtaba Rahman @mij_europe
I understand @BorisJohnson wanted @EmmanuelMacron & Merkel to join his phone call with @vonderleyen last night, but she rejected the idea

So even yesterday he was STILL looking to undermine the EU and split its leaders. After all this time and the number of times he's tried this on.

Have no doubt that a) everything will be blamed on Macron (probably personally, with Conservative hardliners coming out calling for the public to boycott French cheese and wine - I'm serious btw) and covid b) covid provides a handy distraction at least for the moment. It will be used accordingly - that means its possibly now not in Johnson's interest to stop a spike in January. All efforts will be put into the vaccine rollout for PR but thats going to hit the breaks fairly soon. No doubt the EU will be blamed for that too.

What I'm not anticipating is another full lockdown. I think at least parts of Greater Manchester will now get out of T3 on 16th December. Traffords numbers look exceptional and I think it politically impossible for Johnson to keep it in T3. Its Graham Brady's patch and Manchester as a whole looks far far better than T2 London.

Anyone who gets out of T3 before Christmas won't go back into it. I'm not anticipating London to go T3 unless No Deal turns really ugly and its useful to quell civil unrest.

I think if we head into no deal then tight restrictions won't be used for covid reasons no matter how bad the hospitals get - it will only be about civil unrest, it will all be about keeping the economy going - backbench revolts are what scare Johnson most, and he's already said no more Tiers after the start of Feb.

We shall see what the day brings...

God you barely ever hear of the back stop these days!

I was just thinking about my remain Tory mp. I bet after the last few years he's reconciled himself to the fact being an mp is a temporary thing.

Erstwhile El Laurence 'It/That/WTF'
@LaurenceinEU
·
19h
Fool Leavers once, shame on Johnson and friends. Fool them over and over again, for almost 5 years, and then shaft them completely, shame on them.

Project Reality:

www.reddit.com/r/brexit/

If they could confirm the decision after I've been shopping tomorrow morning, that would greatly be appreciated!!!

Thanks DGRossetti

There is no overall US-EU trade deal. Only a few selected highlights. And yes - the needs to meet EU standards (as indeed the EU would need to meet US standards). The US has agreed to abide by ECJ rulings and the EU by US federal court rulings

So if the USA is happy to do this then I don't see why we shouldn't be?

So if the USA is happy to do this then I don't see why we shouldn't be?

Because we are special ?

Time to avoid the motorways....

www.gov.uk/government/publications/temporary-relaxation-of-the-enforcement-of-the-drivers-hours-rules-all-sectors-carriage-of-goods-by-road

LQ Hope the hedgehog does well at the sanctuary and glad your cat is well.

So we don't know if Johnson took a shit on the table, but this is the menu and I am laughing, someone was being clever.

And for their socially distanced dinner, we’re told they had:

Starter: Pumpkin soup, scallops

Main: Steamed turbot, mashed potatoes with wasabi and vegetables

Desert: Pavlova with exotic* fruit and coconut sorbet.

*exactly which exotic fruit remains a mystery

Pumpkin soup = Canada starter (this is admittedly a slight stretch and could be a USA reference) = basic free trade deal on offer
Scallops/turbot = fisheries
Wasabi = UK-Japan trade deal that's not as good as the UK-EU one
Pavlova = Australian dessert = no deal

Oh yes, I'm very aware that an 'Australia style deal' is a euphemism!

@Dontlickthetrolley

If they could confirm the decision after I've been shopping tomorrow morning, that would greatly be appreciated!!!

That's what I was thinking. I've bought a few items but have that sinking feeling that I need to get much more in....

WorriedMutha - a few pages back you asked: How does the UK get out of the grip of populism? Can anyone see the exit route ... I also think about this a lot. The Lincoln Project is Republicans working in the US, obvs (but same issues at the UK) to defeat Trump (get innn!) and Trumpism. They’re wrestling with this exact issue so you might like their podcasts over the next months (and maybe years ) as they try and unravel the causes of populism and how to combat it. The presenters and the research are excellent.

I seldom post but love the discussion on these threads.

I can't see any rift healing here (or US) anytime soon.

Just keep thinking of Putin and jobs endlessly gaffawing

Am sticking my neck out here, but I think there will be a deal.

In reality there will be muttering from Brexiteers, but they will get used to it. The alternative is not going to work for anyone and they know it now. The ERG know what's coming, not much they can do now.

It's either go it alone, or get on with it. But at least Johnson can say say he took it to the wire for the good of the UK. And will then head off to the lucrative speaking circuit with a positive vibe behind him.

Biden is the key here, make no mistake.

NI got the best outcome anyway and good on them.

@Dontlickthetrolley

If they could confirm the decision after I've been shopping tomorrow morning, that would greatly be appreciated!!!

Likewise!

I went today (preens smugly)

Me too.
but I forgot to get any cheese
🤦🏻‍♀️

Crime of the century!

The trade deal, if it happens, won't solve the FOM will it, and visas and 90 day stays, and driving licences, and health EHIC, and I am sure there are many more issues. That's just how it works as a third country.

Thank you Cryptic. I hadn't heard of the Lincoln Project so I will seek solace there.
I try not to get too wound up by the day to day atrocities of the Brexit project. I am more exercised by the bigger picture and how we get back to being a sane country.
A couple of years ago I can recall someone on a remainer thread I follow having a meeting with Dominic Grieve who was his constituency MP. He said he thought reversing Brexit was possible but a slow burner in that its contradictions would manifest themselves and the public would turn against it. Only then could sane MPs seize the initiative and Parliament would guide us back to base.
That was back in the days we still thought a second referendum was achievable. In the halcyon days before the Tories jettisoned May and any lingering remainer MPs, prorogued Parliament and routinely lie unchallenged by the mainstream media.
Forgive me if I sound despairing but it was only a few short years ago that the Grieve analysis seemed to be right on the money.
This is not unlike the escalation of events that brought about Nazi Germany. I am not by any means suggesting there are violent motives but it is how democracies fail and descend into chaos. It's a series of events and unintended consequences.

Yes, I fully agree there WorriedMutha - with Nazi Germany it was a gradual slide. We forget now just how popular Hitler was with large sections of the German populace and the way that many of our own politicians went along with it - for a variety of reasons. Some would have agreed with him; others were gentlemen and didn't want to realise that he didn't have the same values. Eventually, events and unintended consequences pushed things too far.

What will happen here is impossible to tell. Will the populace turn against Brexit? Not in the short term, because it will be spun as all the EU's fault. Fortunately though, Trump didn't win, and for all the the Tories are now trying to cosy up to Biden, he clearly does have a long memory, so there will have to be a lot of fence mending.

FT tomorrow

@Words

It's unbelievable that we are where we are, after all this time. Facing what so many predicted. Faithful thread follower here, almost from the start. Brexit stash rebuilt after first lockdown ( thanks to Bellini and others I had one in the first place.) Has anyone heard from BCF? I do hope she's ok. I miss her. Thank you to all the regulars, most of all RTB for these threads chronically this utterly ignominious period in our history :(

I miss BCF too. ( name changed since I last wrote on the Westminstenders thread. As always, an avid reader.

Oh crap, Laura K has just tweeted that discussions have not gone well, decision by Sunday...

The gov't routinely lie unchallenged by the mainstream media

Of all places, on HIGNFY, Ian hislop said that Murdoch had applied for a new channel here in the U.K. So just as Dom ordered/wanted, will we get our very own Fox style so-called news network? Katie Hopkins could be its perfect talk show host? Or maybe Nige?

Will it be here just in time to spread lies and fuel further division talk up the post Brexit sunlit lands? Well, we know that it won't challenge the gov't. Instead it'll challenge the truth and make it even harder to regain balanced reporting. All in all, it's getting harder to feel positive...