Westminstenders: Off he pops to Brussels

[RedToothBrush]

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
There's no way Johnson has not already decided whether or not to concede on Level Playing Field. Which makes the trip to Brussels dressing. Whether it will dress a concession as "I have saved us" or No Deal as "I tried my best" remains to be seen. But the choice is already made.

Amanda Cole @amandajanecole
What's your gut feeling, will he put his job ahead of the country? Given his past self serving form?

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
I think he is so cornered - and has done so badly on Covid19 - his instinct will be one last, double-or-nothing throw of the dice. Only no deal does that.

The issue is that coming back with a deal will earn him much heckling and zero back-slapping from his peers. But no deal will earn him just as much heckling, but also plenty of back-slapping. What I don't know is just how ominous the departmental briefings he's getting are.

Its also worth noting the following:

Mujtaba Rahman @mij_europe
I understand @BorisJohnson wanted @EmmanuelMacron & Merkel to join his phone call with @vonderleyen last night, but she rejected the idea

So even yesterday he was STILL looking to undermine the EU and split its leaders. After all this time and the number of times he's tried this on.

Have no doubt that a) everything will be blamed on Macron (probably personally, with Conservative hardliners coming out calling for the public to boycott French cheese and wine - I'm serious btw) and covid b) covid provides a handy distraction at least for the moment. It will be used accordingly - that means its possibly now not in Johnson's interest to stop a spike in January. All efforts will be put into the vaccine rollout for PR but thats going to hit the breaks fairly soon. No doubt the EU will be blamed for that too.

What I'm not anticipating is another full lockdown. I think at least parts of Greater Manchester will now get out of T3 on 16th December. Traffords numbers look exceptional and I think it politically impossible for Johnson to keep it in T3. Its Graham Brady's patch and Manchester as a whole looks far far better than T2 London.

Anyone who gets out of T3 before Christmas won't go back into it. I'm not anticipating London to go T3 unless No Deal turns really ugly and its useful to quell civil unrest.

I think if we head into no deal then tight restrictions won't be used for covid reasons no matter how bad the hospitals get - it will only be about civil unrest, it will all be about keeping the economy going - backbench revolts are what scare Johnson most, and he's already said no more Tiers after the start of Feb.

We shall see what the day brings...

tobee
Kale is a superfood
it will save us from Brexit
and back in the real world

I wish my kale was as stupendous as yours LQ, but it’s very puny. Also something keeps eating my perpetual spinach. I have a purple sprouting broccoli forest that is my pride and joy though!

It's been a full on day at work and only just caught up with the thread.

Hester I'm happy enough to hear the Graun is still relevant. I continue to read and financially support it, but it seems to me that there has been a drop in the quality of its reporting and inclination to increase the clickbait articles. Maybe a reflection of the times but those recent large-scale layoffs and money losses have had an impact.

MrsL yes completely agree not everyone in finance but definitely enough (currency traders etc) who see £ to made in a crisis. Plus, many of those I know in finance tend to be quite cosmopolitan and as much at home in Paris or Munich etc as London so perhaps feel less affected by no deal?

Now I'll go off to see the other thread you're all talking about...

Don't downplay the impact of the disaster capitalism. That's what drove the initial campaign.

Hannibal - if true, that's very alarming. Seeing figures written down like that is downright scary.

.

I thought this was a revealing clip of Johnson I've just seen linked to on Twitter:

twitter.com/holbrookfields/status/1337179894476918786

'Pointless boosterism'.

I can't bear to listen to the lying toad. But yes, we need the same relationship with the EU as Australia has, because they are dependent on EU JIT supply chains and get much of their fresh food from EU countries.

But, the bots are definitely rattled, seeing the nonsense being spouted on some of the other threads.

Oh sorry, I misworded that - it's actually a clip of Rory Stewart talking about his time at the Foreign Office when Johnson was Foreign Secretary. I can't bear listening to Johnson either, but Rory Stewart I can cope with!

Call me a hopeless optimist but I still think the "no deal" stuff is aimed as much at the EU as at U.K.

No one in the U.K. is paying the slightest attention anyway (not so much as a hint of concern in the Mumsnet active threads this morning).

Not that I'm optimistic for a deal, but I don't think it's quite inevitable yet.

Call me a hopeless optimist but I still think the "no deal" stuff is aimed as much at the EU as at U.K.

Johnson’s little address to the nation yesterday evening was carefully timed to catch the EU leaders before they went in to dinner.

Unfortunately for Johnson, by 6am this morning they still hadn’t mentioned Brexit.

Johnson hasn't expressed any regret that ND is likely. Because he never wanted a deal. There isn't going to be one.

I agree ICHCF.
No deal will suit the Blue rinsed Tory heartlands brigade, whilst sending the devotees of ERG ism into a writhing orgasmic mess.
And that will not be a pretty sight !

I think I need brain bleach now.

Long time lurker here.
Is there any truth/likelihood in the suggestion that we will get a last minute 3 month grace period in the event of no-deal to avoid immediate problems in January and give businesses time to prepare?

I thought Johnson had turned his nose up at a grace period? How much good will another three months be when the UK Government hasn't told them what exactly to prepare for?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/10/thursday-evening-news-briefing-brussels-accused-blackmail/

If this is the type of reporting (in a supposedly reputable newspaper) that people in the UK are exposed to, it's no wonder you have people ranting for no deal. I would expect any decent reporter to actually mention that, rather than a threat to the UK, the UK would be reverting to third country status and would have the same rights to travel as an other third country. There has been reciprocal fishing between european countries and the UK long before the EU. Isn't there some dutch or belgian city that has rights dating back centuries? This type of reporting is just jingoistic tripe. I dread to think what the likes of the DM are printing.

Brussels demands access for fishermen in 'blackmail'

Brussels is ratcheting up the pressure. The European Commission wants continued access to UK fishing waters for 12 months under a no-deal Brexit - and is threatening to stop British planes and lorries travelling to the bloc unless it caves to its "level playing field" demands. Its contingency plans - which make clear it will push for the UK to remain tied to its rules - prompted fury among senior Brexiteers, who accused the EU of "piratical behaviour" and attempting to "blackmail" the UK into conceding parts of its sovereignty. Harry Yorke and James Crisp in Brussels have analysed the documents published today. It comes after Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Commission president Ursula von der Leyen agreed to resume negotiations over a trade deal. Go behind the scenes of their dinner date last night. These are the remaining sticking points and this is what no-deal would mean for daily life.

Meanwhile, it has emerged that Britons will be precluded from travelling to EU countries when the transition period ends. From Jan 1, residents will reportedly no longer be able to freely travel in Europe under the bloc's Covid safety rules. But some EU nations are likely to "override" the ban. These are the countries that could make special allowances. Airlines have already seen a surge in bookings for the Christmas bubble period.

Shorter version of the Torygraph whinge: "BullyingPunishmentDontTheyKnowWhoWeAre"

A lot of EU countries closed their borders anyway as a result of Covid and only allowed Nationals and bona fide residents in.

Clearly I have more energy at the start of the day - couldn't resist dropping some facts in the latest astroturf thread.

The BBC running stories about "Will I be able to go on holiday to the EU" could be a turning point. Along with the news clips from ports come January.

This astroturf thread?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4103485-EU-blackmailing-the-UK

It's fucking hilarious. The OP and the supporting posters - every Bingo square being ticked. Bullying, Punishment, They Need Us More Than We Need Them, and of course the absolute winner for Leavers: meany Remainers not prostrating themselves at our feet is persecution!

Will I be able to go on holiday? Nasty EU not letting us go.
Ports being clogged, nasty EU not letting us.... blah blah blah.

It's already been a shit year travel wise, but we have had a legitimate worry about catching a nasty disease to hold us back.

Is it just me, or has there been a slight shift in tactics in the open warfare of AIBU ?

There appears to be a new sort of poster ... the "Remainer" who is finding all this tiresome and doesn't like holding the lunatic leavers to account. Write large a sort of "We lost, so should go with the flow" sort of theme.

@DGRossetti

Is it just me, or has there been a slight shift in tactics in the open warfare of AIBU ?

There appears to be a new sort of poster ... the "Remainer" who is finding all this tiresome and doesn't like holding the lunatic leavers to account. Write large a sort of "We lost, so should go with the flow" sort of theme.

I'm pretty sure there's been a fairly constant supply of astroturf born-agains over the years: "I voted Remain but.. [tone policing]/[forced teaming]."

@DGRossetti

Is it just me, or has there been a slight shift in tactics in the open warfare of AIBU ?

There appears to be a new sort of poster ... the "Remainer" who is finding all this tiresome and doesn't like holding the lunatic leavers to account. Write large a sort of "We lost, so should go with the flow" sort of theme.

Its just apathy. And I'm alright jack though.

People don't want to think. Remainers suffer from this plight as much as any leaver.

I just want to get on with it now, cos it seems fairly obvious whats going to happen. 'Going with the flow' isn't quite how its going to pan out regardless of how you vote or how you think its time to just 'accept the result'.

I wouldn't mind if we had a credible strategy/plan/system that was ready/businesses who had a clue what the situation will be in 3 weeks time.

Thats the problem and if you don't wish to read that, or think about it, then I'm PErfECTlY HapPy To AiD ThAT wilLFuL BlinDnESs.