Westministenders: Its the waiting that kills you

[RedToothBrush]

Just waiting.

Talks between Frost and Barnier still unresolved issues. There are rumours but 'all without evidence' (the new in phrase on BBC news tonight) that the UK is waivering.

Less that two months to go.

And there is the small matter of what happens in the US than might influence events.

How about he lost - get over it?

I don't need to "get over it" - I'm not a fan of Trump - or Biden unfortunately.

Then why are you spouting that he 'Nearly won'? He lost, both in the electoral college and the popular vote.

Peregrina
Then why are you spouting that he 'Nearly won'?

We were discussing Nigel Farage's opinion - you are not following the thread again.

I am following the thread all right.Yes, we all know that Farage wanted Trump to win, but he didn't and a miss is as good as a mile in a FPTP system. He only looked as though he had won on Wednesday because, I believe as part of Republican legislation, they weren't allowed to count the postal votes first. If Farage was so clever, he should have noted that the Democrats were going to have more postal voters and the results would be skewed.

Be interesting to have a discussion with Clav on the basis that Remainers "nearly won", as they have now decided to reset "what losing looks like".

@DGRossetti

Be interesting to have a discussion with Clav on the basis that Remainers "nearly won", as they have now decided to reset "what losing looks like".

Only if you enjoy conversations like trying to nail wordclouds fog to a wall.

"Ah Mr Johnson. We've been expecting you."

Given the defence of the GFA is about to be made manifest, how do we think Brexit will develop now? Are we looking at engineering an "extension", albeit requiring A LOT of foot-shifting incl legals.

Johnson I am sure would do a u-turn in a heartbeat. After all, as in Heseltine's words - he sees the way the crowd is running, darts ahead and shouts "Follow me."

I suspect the nodding dogs in the Cabinet would go along with what Johnson wanted. As for the headbangers in his Government - Redwood and Co, no they will not change their opinion any time soon.

So we are still looking at sacrificing the country to save the tory party. great.

At the moment it doesn't look as though Johnson is minded to change his stance, and he and his Government are still busy blaming the EU over the issues covered in the Internal Markets bill. (Instead of blaming himself for not bothering to read his Withdrawal Agreement!) However, I suspect that this is still playing to the UKIP tendency in his party, and that the reality may be very, very different.

Already the emphasis has changed from:
"You'll eat our chlorinated chickens if you know what's good for you!"
to
"Disregard the Good Friday Agreement at your peril!"

The world suddenly seems safer without the orange lunatic in charge. If only we could do something about the lemon on our side of the Pond.

@Peregrina - At the moment it doesn't look as though Johnson is minded to change his stance, and he and his Government are still busy blaming the EU over the issues covered in the Internal Markets bill. (Instead of blaming himself for not bothering to read his Withdrawal Agreement!) However, I suspect that this is still playing to the UKIP tendency in his party, and that the reality may be very, very different.

I suspect you're right about playing to the UKIP element as DOMINIC RAAB HAS said he is “confident” that the Northern Ireland hurdles can be overcome to ensure the UK secures a trade deal.

The UK Foreign Secretary added he believed the government would be able to allay American fears and navigate the Northern Ireland issue to satisfy allies in the US following Joe Biden’s presidential election win.

Contd. in www.thejournal.ie/dominic-raab-northern-ireland-brexit-5259980-Nov2020/

The Tory party sold it's soul to Brexiteers. It can tear itself apart appeasing them at the cost of all else if it likes.

However, a sudden discovery of £400 million where there was no money to be found before - plus the screeching U turn it signals on top of Boris lockdown U turn speak volumes.

Johnson played down any prospect of immediate trade negotiations with the US under Biden. “I’m a keen student of the United States’ trade policy and they’re tough negotiations,” he said. “And I’ve never believed that this was going to be something that was going to be a complete pushover under any US administration. I think there’s a good chance we’ll do something.”

Yes, a sign of history being rapidly rewritten.

@TheMShip

Back to Brexit...

Jordan Freight:
We just had 1.5hr trial with the Kent Access Permit people to help determine if the notice is sufficient. Very friendly conversation. So, does it make sense? Yes. Is it workable? Not acording to us. KAP is a result of a failure of systems being ready.

The theoretical model makes sense. In practice, owing to time, volume and information required (think border ready) will prove challenging. We hope to see revisions before 01.01.21

Wait your exercise lasted an hour and a half or use of the permit itself to do whatever you need it for took an hour and a half?

The modelling on customs delays worked with units of minutes, not hours.

Essentially to see if the online system made sense. It did. But this does not mean it is workable.

Ah I see.

Did it handle edge cases satisfactorily?

Like if a trucker is already Dover-bound but the shipper rolls the export onto the next vessel sailing a week later? Does the KAP remain valid?

Have to get a new one

Oh man, that seems like a big problem as we rolled stuff all the time for bad paperwork. I would think this a problem if eg the yard to store the container is actually in Kent (though maybe there are alternate arrangements for entry not heading to a port terminal.

Italics are other Twitter people responding to the OP. LQ will be rolling her eyes at this, I'm sure you aren't surprised!

I'm not suggesting that there won't be issues in Kent but questions like "if a trucker is already Dover-bound but the shipper rolls the export onto the next vessel sailing a week later? Does the KAP remain valid?" show a complete misunderstanding of the system.

It applies only to freight vehicles over 7,500 kg Maximum Allowed Mass, which are leaving the UK, via Kent, with exports for the EU.

It doesn't apply to containers or unaccompanied trailers delivered to the docks.

Mr Biden, a quick word for the BBC
"The BBC, I'm Irish "
and then a big smile
says all you need to know about how Johnson and Raab will be regarded.

Biden's second cousins in Ireland have been filmed.
Maybe Priti Patel should not have joked about starving them out

I admit though I cannot see a way out of the mess
that does not still do severe damage to the UK food supply this winter

Farage Garage Update:

www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/heavy-rain-holds-up-brexit-lorry-park-construction-236994/
Ashford Brexit lorry park construction delayed by heavy rain as end of transition period looms

Work on a huge post-Brexit lorry park is running behind schedule after heavy rain forced contractors to down tools.

The Department for Transport says it had to suspend construction of the 1,700-space facility in Ashford earlier this week "to manage surface water levels".

and

If the Sevington site isn't ready for January 1, part of the nearby Waterbrook Park will be used, but the estate is further from Junction 10a of the M20 and will lead to more congestion on the A2070 dual carriageway.

Interesting angle on US-UK trade talks. The US could use them as a prelude to a US-EU trade deal

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/08/what-does-bidens-win-mean-for-britains-special-relationship

...

Georgie Wright, of the Institute for Government, says that if anything, Brexit will spur on the US to strike a trade deal with the UK as it could be a means of prizing open the door again for a trade deal with the EU.

Those on the EU side say both the US and Brussels have huge teams of negotiators and would have the capacity to run multiple talks.

“Trade is not top of the US agenda at the moment. After four years of the ‘America first’ doctrine, the Republicans don’t want any more trade deals, and the Democrats aren’t too hot on them either,” said Wright.

“It is hard to see how Biden would get a trade deal through Congress and a Republican Senate. But, it does see one advantage to a trade deal with the UK – and that is the possibility of gaining a foothold in Europe which it could use as a way of extracting more access from the EU. The thinking goes ‘if the UK, which has similar standards, accepts our goods – why can’t the EU market?’”she said.

(contd)

Now the US using Brexit to it's own advantage makes perfect sense. But as Brexiteers have repeatedly told us - from before day one that they knew what they were voting for, then this must be part of their plan. Bravo !

Ashford Brexit lorry park construction delayed by heavy rain as end of transition period looms

Small wet country famed for it's rain has rain. News at 10.

@FishesaPlenty

I read the query as meaning if the trucker is Dover bound and has his KAP for the planned sailing to the EU, and then it gets delayed and the trucker returns to base, he'd need a fresh KAP to make the journey to load onto the later sailing.

How much space is there at Dover to leave containers / trailers?

Sabrina
They don't return to base.
Truck tickets are always open. They roll onto whichever ferry is ready when they are.

The KAP will get them into the Farage Garage
they will then sit there till they are released to go to Dover / the tunnel and roll onto the next available train / boat.

Holding space at the tunnel is around 3 trains worth
Dover its about two boats
Trains are every 20 mins, boats are around every 30 mins

The problem would arise if several vehicles got held up in Calais and the boat could not turn around fast enough.

however the combination of the M20, Manston and the Farage Garage add up to about 25000 lorries
so about 2 1/2 days worth

How much space is there at Dover to leave containers / trailers?

Unattended ?

For obvious reasons I would hope the answer is none at all ...

DGR
Unaccompanied trailers have always been part of the Dover traffic.

In the old days of days of the Western docks they would come in on the train boat (by train across europe, onto the ferry and then onto the train out of Dover).
Later on the UK trucks would pick them up (as UK trucks do with containers arriving from Rotterdam)

IIRC there is room for about 100 trailers in Eastern Docks (they area used is beyond the coach park, on top of the WW2 submarine pens).

THe trailer area at Western Docks is now where they hold boat people

remember the Vietnamese people into Essex - that was an unaccompanied trailer

So is the comment Like if a trucker is already Dover-bound but the shipper rolls the export onto the next vessel sailing a week later? Does the KAP remain valid? an unlikely scenario because the sailing wouldn't be delayed by a week?

I am not sure how this will pan out, but it is a totally different landscape now with a Biden Presidency. He does not hate the EU like the Pumpkin did, and he has Irish roots (I know, I know), so will, along with Pelosi protect the GFA.

I bet Michel and Ursula could not stop snorting with laughter last night.

About time the Brexit crowd got a kicking and had to eat a bit of humble pie for a change.

There will be a deal now I reckon. It was always on the back burner anyway, just in case the Pumpkin was booted out.

I note that Johnson's congratulatory tweet to Biden mentioned Trade agreements. Yep.