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Brexit

To feel so angry that we'll be getting a no deal Brexit now on top of all this shit

324 replies

puffinsseagulls · 16/10/2020 14:19

Australia deal = no deal effectively. Quite annoyed with the PM smirking though his speech as well. Seemingly uncaring about what he's inflicting on people. I do believe people in 2016 weren't voting for no deal. I know it's happening anyway, but it's a cheek to try to blame the EU for it imo.

OP posts:
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8
PoorMansPaulaRadcliffe · 18/10/2020 09:25

@Cattenberg

Maybe No Deal would actually be for the best? The sooner the UK hits rock bottom, the sooner it will have to change course.

What’s the alternative? Limping along for decades, making every excuse under the sun about why we’re falling behind our European neighbours? No thanks.

You may be right. Perhaps we need the last few dust sheets removed so people will see Britain ain't a stately home anymore. It's not even a suburban semi. It's one of those prefab things in Sheppey threatening to fall off the edge of the cliff . . .
thetemptationofchocolate · 18/10/2020 09:51

My partner voted to leave. He relies on the economy doing well for his income. Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!
Mind you he has said before that he didn't vote to leave without a deal but he's gone very quiet on this whole topic now. I feel very bitter about it all and may well be tempted to tell him, when he moans about having no money next year, that he has only got what he voted for.

LadyWithLapdog · 18/10/2020 09:52

@Eve I remember talking with an employment lawyer about workers’ rights a few years back. He wouldn’t accept that there’d be any changes. I haven’t seen him in a couple of years but I wonder if he’d think differently now.

Songsofexperience · 18/10/2020 10:01

Very very few people will profit from this. It's disgusting what's being done to this country, an absolute disgrace. No one deserves it - including leave voters. I just hope karma gets the morally bankrupt bunch who has cynically, knowingly, been selling us down the river. May they choke on their thirty pieces of silver.

LizzieSiddal · 18/10/2020 10:03

Cattenberg
Maybe No Deal would actually be for the best? The sooner the UK hits rock bottom, the sooner it will have to change course.

What’s the alternative? Limping along for decades, making every excuse under the sun about why we’re falling behind our European neighbours? No thanks.
You may be right. Perhaps we need the last few dust sheets removed so people will see Britain ain't a stately home anymore. It's not even a suburban semi. It's one of those prefab things in Sheppey threatening to fall off the edge of the cliff . . .

I’ve never thought of it like that before. I’m going to hang onto that thought when the shit hits the fan.

chomalungma · 18/10/2020 10:05

You may be right. Perhaps we need the last few dust sheets removed so people will see Britain ain't a stately home anymore. It's not even a suburban semi. It's one of those prefab things in Sheppey threatening to fall off the edge of the cliff

This is my Brexit theory. I have travelled loads in Northern Europe. Seen how modern a lot of it is. How things are done differently there. It just seems more advanced than us.

We could be like that if we tried - and made an effort to be a part of it.

But we are full of our own superiority and a 'we know best, look at the Empire' syndrome.

Really - we are a small island, just off Europe, with a not particularly well educated people with massive inequalities, wealth concentrated in the hands of the few and in certain regions - one of our main advantages is the fact we speak English.

chomalungma · 18/10/2020 10:07

And I suspect many people are in for a reality check.

LizzieSiddal · 18/10/2020 10:18

And I suspect many people are in for a reality check. Indeed. With the EU gone who will the right wing media/Eu Skeptics, blame the UKs inadequacies on?

I just hope it doesn’t take too long for the penny to drop in the population.

52andblue · 18/10/2020 10:19

I wonder how the (advisory) Referendum would go if it were run again on a 'Stay as we are vs protracted expensive No Deal' set of choices?

(whether you think this was the game plan all along or it is all the fault of the big bad EU, we are where we are, and it isn't a good place to be)

I thought Johnson smirked too (not important in the scheme of things I guess). But what @CherryPavlova says above about comparisons to 1933 is not 'far fetched' anymore. It might've seemed so 2 years ago, or even 2 months ago. Ignoring international law, & eroding basic protections is really scary. it is hard to feel optimistic.

Antonov · 18/10/2020 11:05

57% to remain
35% to leave
8% would abstain

Antonov · 18/10/2020 11:09

Although the survey shows a significant swing in British support for EU membership compared to 2016, it paints only part of a murky picture in the context of British politics. Johnson won an 80-seat majority in a landslide election victory back in December on the simple platform of "Get Brexit Done," suggesting that leaving the EU was popular after more than three years of indecision.
"A lot of people, regardless of their preference for leave or remain, believe that the referendum was a democratic vote, regardless of what they think of the outcome. So in the words of the PM, they might agree that we needed to get Brexit done," says Will Jennings, Professor in Politics at the University of Southampton.
"Asking people hypothetically how they would vote if the referendum were happening now, you might get an interesting answer. But it is a fundamentally different question."

AKissAndASmile · 18/10/2020 11:14

Her record is awful, yet here she is in charge of Track and Trace and we have had 16,000 unreported cases. Has she been asked to leave because of this? no. She's a crony of matt Hancock and is completely out of her depth. Yet still she plods on buggering up everything she touches
Not just that, but she's going to head the new body that is replacing Public Health England. Failing upwards indeed!

AKissAndASmile · 18/10/2020 11:16

35% to leave
8% would abstain

Who ARE these people?!🙄

CherryPavlova · 18/10/2020 11:19

@Roussette

We only have to look at Baroness Dido Harding. She was the disgraced CEO of Talk Talk who was paid nearly £3M in 2015 despite the worst cyber attack ever by two teenage boys.. She is married to a Tory MP and is a donor.

Her record is awful, yet here she is in charge of Track and Trace and we have had 16,000 unreported cases.
Has she been asked to leave because of this? no. She's a crony of matt Hancock and is completely out of her depth. Yet still she plods on buggering up everything she touches

Oh, and just to add to that, her tory MP husband has called in the past for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system.

Dodgy or what...

Exactly, but worsens somewhat when you see the job Harding's husband, John Penrose has as anti-Corruption champion. Look at the Serco connections - the CEOs brother was a Tory MP and his partner is a major Tory donor. Minister for health was a Serco spin doctor. Serco has been paid £12 billion for a system that is failing. Then 60 out of 61 constituencies that were given significant funding from the Towns Fund were Tory. Glastonbury and Newark get money but Tynemouth didn't. Jenrick's own constituency, Newark, received £25 million; It is the 270th most deprived town in UK. Of the £1.57 billion Arts Rescue Plan, not a penny has yet been distributed. Meanwhile Pestfix - experts in PPE, obviously, received £32 million to produce PPE. They were a family run, mouse catching business before Covid.
Corruption on a huge scale is encouraged, whilst hate is being built up against a tiny number of asylum seekers arriving from goodness only knows what. Lawyers are dismissed as 'lefties' and 'do-gooders' for doing their jobs,
Clavinova · 18/10/2020 12:40

Meanwhile Pestfix - experts in PPE, obviously, received £32 million to produce PPE. They were a family run, mouse catching business before Covid.

The Good Law Project have a response from solicitors acting for Pestfix on their website (3rd July) - it's quite an interesting read;

^"Our client’s position is that of an established and respected company that has stepped up to assist DHSC and the National Health Service at a time of unprecedented global crisis. Our client has sought to use its contacts in Asia to secure supplies of urgently-required personal protective equipment (“PPE”) for health and social care workers in circumstances where there has been, and remains, a
very high level of demand for PPE, meaning that contacts with manufacturers in Asia, and an ability to act quickly and nimbly to agree deals with them, is essential for securing supplies."^
...
"1. Background"
"1.1 Our client has supplied a broad range of products to more than fifteen NHS Trusts over the last eleven years. (As noted at paragraph 21 of the DHSC Response, some NHS Trusts choose to source PPE themselves rather than work through SSCL.) On every occasion, the products supplied by our client have met the rigorous safety standards required of them: our client is thus an established and reliable source of supplies to the NHS. In the introductory paragraphs to the PAP Letter, you have suggested that our client has never supplied products to be used by the NHS. This is simply untrue–it is an assertion by your clients based on wrong assumptions."
"1.2 In mid to late March 2020 press reports began to emerge suggesting that the existing NHS Supply Chain was either struggling, or would be likely to struggle, to fulfil the supply of vital PPE to front line workers due to unprecedented global demand."
"1.3 During the same period, our client was contacted by multiple public bodies, including NHS trusts, with requests for the supply of PPE" ...

"1.4 During March 2020, being mindful of the potential crisis in PPE supply facing the NHS and wanting to use its experience and contacts to help, our client’s directors began intensive efforts for building a supply-chain which would be able to procure large quantities of medical-grade PPE from China. In building that supply chain, our client drew upon its Company Director’s established business network in the Far East. Our client also drew upon the Company Director’s personal contacts, including his wife (a veterinary surgeon) and her extended family who are based in China. In circumstances where the difficulties with air travel made it difficult for make visits to China, these family members were able to visit and negotiate directly with factories producing compliant products, in order to secure production space that might fulfil the requirements for PPE supplies including for use in health and social care settings."
"1.5 The rapid establishment of our client’s PPE-focussed supply chain in China was built upon–and was possible only by reason of–the company's experience in sourcing high quality products from factories in China for supply in the UK since 2011"
...
"Your clients appear also to have no concern with respect to the damage being caused to our client's reputation as a result of the ongoing social media campaign being waged on the basis of inaccuracies, for generating ‘crowdfunded’ donations to fund the litigation. The true object of the campaign and the litigation appears to be political, namely to level criticisms at the current government. The harm to our client’s reputation is simply ‘collateral damage’" ...

goodlawproject.org/news/the-ppe-fiasco/

Clavinova · 18/10/2020 12:50

Antonov
57% to remain
35% to leave
8% would abstain

"Specification for the Survey"

"The survey will be representative of all persons aged 15 and over (no upper age limit) resident within private households in each country, regardless of their nationality, citizenship or language."

Not necessarily entitled to vote in a UK referendum then.

user1471565182 · 18/10/2020 12:51

Isnt Dido Harding's husband also part of anti corruption in the government?

JingleCatJingle · 18/10/2020 12:52

It is the most vulnerable who will suffer the worst. Also the torrent of crap being dumped on NI is unhelpful.

Shame on those of you who voted for these Tory liars.

Clavinova · 18/10/2020 13:20

echt
And as for the Australia-style deal? Is this on advice from the unlamented Tony Abbott, a man with no experience whatsoever of trade deals? I tell you, here in Australia we roared with laughter at the idea

Clearly he does have experience as PM;

"In April 2014, Abbott led a trade delegation to Japan, South Korea and China. The three economies accounted for more than half of all of Australia's two-way trade. By the close of his tenure, Abbott's government had struck free trade agreements with the three nations."

www.afr.com/policy/economy/abbott-s-the-right-man-to-help-boris-on-trade-20200910-p55uh3

More recently in India - November 2019;

www.deccanherald.com/national/former-australian-pm-tony-abbott-calls-on-pm-modi-778273.html

TheQuietWoman · 18/10/2020 15:17

@JingleCatJingle

It is the most vulnerable who will suffer the worst. Also the torrent of crap being dumped on NI is unhelpful.

Shame on those of you who voted for these Tory liars.

The delightful DUP pushed for this shitshow as well.

chomalungma · 18/10/2020 16:07

I am impressed by the cheek of calling it the Australia deal.

It seems that if we leave with No Deal, then Australia itself will have more deals with the EU than we will have.

CherryPavlova · 18/10/2020 17:25

Clavinova, you must be the last person standing who thinks they’re doing an excellent job, that corruption/cronyism is fine and that Brexit is going to bring untold wealth to the masses. Well done for hanging in there in the face of pretty strong evidence.
You’re not Sarah Vine or Dido are you?

Roussette · 18/10/2020 17:41

Tony Abbott....
'His ministerial roles were in the Howard government, all domestic portfolios: minister for employment services; minister for employment, workplace relations and small business; and minister for health and ageing.'

Aside from two years as PM, he has never held an international ministerial portfolio or trade role, and negotiated no trade deails that anyone knows of while he was PM. So what’s made people think he’s an expert on trade?'
One of those links above is just a photo op.

Sums it up really. Little Matty Hancock likes him. And according to him it doesn't matter that he's a mysoginist and homophobe because 'he's good at trade'. No trade record to speak of.

Clavinova · 18/10/2020 19:53

Aside from two years as PM, he has never held an international ministerial portfolio or trade role, and negotiated no trade deals that anyone knows of while he was PM.

He doesn't need to be an expert - he has been employed to schmooze for want of a better word;

April 2014 -
"Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott pulled off an impressive feat in Asia last week as he embarked on a tour of Japan, South Korea and China, forging free trade agreements and announcing closer security relations on each stop along the way."

www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/13703/australia-s-abbott-seeks-to-balance-japan-south-korea-and-china-on-asian-trip

"Prime minister Tony Abbott’s diplomatic and trade mission to northeast Asia can be hailed as a success."

theconversation.com/abbotts-asia-trip-comes-off-for-now-25377

One of those links above is just a photo op.

November 2019 -
"Ex-Australian PM leads delegation to India, meets PM Modi on trade synergy."

"Tony Abbot is in India with a business delegation to boost trade ties between the two countries, met Prime Minister Narendra Modi and other Indian interlocutors."

www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/ex-australian-pm-leads-delegation-to-india-meets-modi-on-trade-synergy/story-IUjBg1Qu4FVZbbrxglZmcI.html