Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

[RedToothBrush]

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

Interesting info everyone. With a Government majority of 79 - (thanks Red for magic number of 40) then remains to be seen if enough vote against and not just abstain on Bill this afternoon. Saw this on views from NI parties: httpsw.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54140760

"Northern Ireland's political parties are divided over the bill, which the government has admitted would break international law.
Some unionist parties gave it a broad welcome, saying the EU cannot be allowed to impose an economic border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

The Ulster Unionists do not support the protocol, but said the government should not be threatening to break international law to "right a terrible wrong".

But Sinn Féin, the SDLP, Alliance and the Greens criticised the British government for reneging on previous commitments".

I was just about to post about the popularity of corona beer in Wetherspoons.

Why am I not surprised?

The Policing Minister added: “International treaties are as much about the spirit and the intent as they are about the letter of the law.

They're all the slimy toads trying to find different ways to say, "It's ok to break the law"

Or alternatively, "Don't they know who we are? We decide when and how we will follow the Law and which ones we choose to follow."

Cameron’s intervention (btw agree with what DGR said, hope history doesn’t forget his role in this) has got me thinking about where we would be now if Remain had won. I expect the ERG would still be moaning on about the EU but what about the ex red wall etc? Would the Tories have won what would have been the 2020 general election?

Starmer is self isolating now. Can he have a proxy vote today?

Starmer is self isolating now

shows the bonkersness of BJ crashing on with Brexit in the middle of a pandemic. People on all sides have got other stuff to think about.

"“No-one contemplated that this situation would occur"

The Uk has been saying "no Deal better than a bad deal" all along

I could have understand if BJ had just refused to sign the WA...

but he praised it as over-ready,
including in his foreward to the Tory manifesto
and required all Tory Parliamentary candidates in the 2019 GE to promise they would vote for it

Nothing has changed
BJ received a civil service briefing on the NI issue before signing

However, it appears he signed the WA with his fingers crossed behind his back
and had promised the ERG he'd renege if there wasn't a post-Brexit trade deal - this however is not mentioned in the WA as a getout

There is an arbitration mechanism in the WA for disputes - whichcould also be ued if some people have only just read the WA - so no excuse.

Hi everyone , long time no see

BBC News - Wetherspoon: 66 staff test positive across 50 pubs
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54144130

Oh dear.

Yes including my son 3 weeks ago. He is ok now but said rules broken all the time , very unhelpful advice from Tim Martin their first night of opening in person who is a regular there. No bloody help from the pub when he got it either .
Not surprised at all

I suspect the only Tory MPs who will abstain or vote against will be the ones who are lawyers-Braverman and her equivalent in the Lords excepted. The others know that their professional reputations will be on the line.

The Policing Minister added: “International treaties are as much about the spirit and the intent as they are about the letter of the law."

Why not domestic law too ?

Good luck reneging on any USA deal (if it ever happens) over any issue, let alone NI
The UK would really experience "punishment" then
The hammering by the US over Suez would be nothing compare to what an angry POTUS would do now.

Of course any laws are about the spirit and the intent but brazenly signing an agreement in bad faith does not comply with the spirit either.

and makes the EU even more unwilling to sign a trade deal

It may be that any future UK trade deal - not just with the EU - would contain specified financial or other penalties for reneging
Normally, reneging just means punitive targeted tariffs and being taken to international court

@Peregrina

I suspect the only Tory MPs who will abstain or vote against will be the ones who are lawyers-Braverman and her equivalent in the Lords excepted. The others know that their professional reputations will be on the line.

I wouldn't want to engage one professionally

All very well MPs resigning from committees - maybe they should resign their seat and let the electorate decide if they agree ?

.

Just skimming some threads on MN, and it should be obvious that the HRA/ECHR bits of the internal market bill are really intended to allow Johnson and co to deploy the sackhammer in order to force companies to force employees back to work and parents to send their kids to school.

Oh well.

Still very hot summer here, DG, 31C

I put away trousers and long sleeves back in April and won't be digging them out for a while yet
So short & tee / singlet every day

I have the air con on atm, because indoor temp in my cool hall reached 28.5C
Several degrees hotter in the living room, where I spend half the day lazing in the sun, looking out over the Rhine
Ah, I love retirement !

Nudging 26 now ...

The first day of the Blitz was glorious too, as I recall my Nan saying as she saw it from Croydon. No evacuation for my DM or her brother and sister. Carries War was just fiction to her. And me.

David Cameron = 🐀

But that's harming the rat's reputation.

We all can trust Mr Johnson to only use the clause to break the WA because Mr Johnson is so trustworthy and a man of his word, right? 🙄

@DrBlackbird

David Cameron = 🐀

But that's harming the rat's reputation.

We all can trust Mr Johnson to only use the clause to break the WA because Mr Johnson is so trustworthy and a man of his word, right? 🙄

I can foresee an Alice in Wonderland few days where various UK ambassadors around the globe are summoned to explain themselves armed with exactly that promise ...

"The UK is only going to break some treaties - you can trust us not to break these".

In a matter that is close to many on MN, if I were a parent from another country, there probably will never be a better time to whisk my kids abroad and then see if I could persuade a foreign court not to extradite because the UK ha gone rogue ????

Thinking about it, the same could apply to any criminal for any charge ...

DGR wonder if that would work? Ah, but which country to claim asylum in... the choices are more problematic these days.

We hope that other countries would sanction BJ and co for breaking an international treaty... but isn't the reality that we are seeing a growing number of elected elites who already do that / are happy to follow suit?

The leanings of the global leaders towards authoritarianism vs liberal democracies is hanging by a thread on whether Trump gets re-elected in Nov or not. It's not going to be pretty either way.

The first day of the Blitz was glorious too, as I recall my Nan saying as she saw it from Croydon. No evacuation for my DM or her brother and sister. Carries War was just fiction to her. And me.
Interesting DGR. My mother was bombed out of her house in Croydon in August when the bombs were aimed at Croydon Airport. She grabbed my baby sister and sat under the stairs while the ceilings fell in. They were evacuated to the North Downs and then had a ringside seat for the Battle of Britain.

Ah, but which country to claim asylum in

You wouldn't be claiming asylum. You would be going to court and arguing that the UKs abrogation of an international treaty means that you cannot be guaranteed the protection that your own country demands of people it extradites. Call it "The McKinnon defence" if you like.

Even the mighty US has been forced to either remove the death penalty or accept it won't get it's hands on criminals it applies for extradition of. You'd think they'd make a big fuss over it, but perversely, they keep it very, very quiet.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v_Burns

...
The Court also cited Reference Re BC Motor Vehicle Act to note that international law was important in defining fundamental justice
...

Certainly I can't see any signatory to the ECHR allowing extradition to a ECHR-exempting UK anytime soon.

So much for security.

@HilaryThorpe

The first day of the Blitz was glorious too, as I recall my Nan saying as she saw it from Croydon. No evacuation for my DM or her brother and sister. Carries War was just fiction to her. And me. Interesting DGR. My mother was bombed out of her house in Croydon in August when the bombs were aimed at Croydon Airport. She grabbed my baby sister and sat under the stairs while the ceilings fell in. They were evacuated to the North Downs and then had a ringside seat for the Battle of Britain.

Sadly my English family are withering away. DGM passed in 1991, tragically DMs younger sister died of meningitis in 1993. DM passed in 2017 and her brother is off grid, if alive. So no one left to ask.

Maybe Brexit is driven by a creeping loneliness ? Who knows ?

DM remembers seeing doodlebugs from the park, and her brother pointing at one saying "STOP !" and it did .

Croydon was one of the areas that had a lot of German gas mains explode when the V2s were landing.

Lots of women and children were evacuated during the early days of the war (you can often spot them on the 1939 register), only to return home within a few weeks.