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Brexit

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 18:09

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 20/09/2020 08:58

mathanxiety - I have been thinking exactly the same myself, and the Westminster Government of the time was not fully able to halt the process. I suspect the same will be true this time.

I will personally shed no tears for Cameron and Johnson if they go down in history as the men who broke up the United Kingdom and join Lord North in the history books.

mrslaughan · 20/09/2020 10:34

Are we talking about Ireland? My British history is sparse.......

Peregrina · 20/09/2020 10:43

Yes, Ireland. I suspect it might this time also apply to Scotland.

fortyducks · 20/09/2020 10:46

We live in a time of political passivity, though.

prettybird · 20/09/2020 10:55

I posted up a memory from 6 years ago, following the Indyref - here is an extract.

....My father (a strong Yes voter) from early on in this campaign kept on telling me it's NOT about the economy, it's about whether you think it's the RIGHT thing to do. The economy is a short term thing. There will no doubt be a bumpy ride initially. The oil is a bonus which will help cushion some of the initial teething problems. But with the resources that Scotland has, unless another state is going to deliberately try to sabotage us, then we can succeed.

I can actually understand those that genuinely believe we are better together (even if I don't understand their size arguments, given the success of many small nations that aren't even blessed with Scotland's resources) or simply emotionally feel British (shame there isn't an adjective for UK-ish, as geographically, we remain British whatever happens). Indeed in 1979, I'd have voted No as I felt more British than Scottish (giving away my age in that I wasn't yet able to vote but was on the electoral register). But times (and values) have moved on.

Those I have difficulty understanding are those that say, "I'd like us to be independent, but not just yet. It's not the right time/there are too many unanswered questions/I just don't know". If not now, when? When the oil has run out and Westminster no longer wants to "subsidise us"? In 15 years or 50 years? A reluctant partner will NEVER pre-negotiate in advance: they will only do so when it is in their interests for us to leave.

I've voted YES so that we can make a 100% of the decisions with a 100% of our revenues for 100% of our people. It's called self-determination. We stand - and fall - by our own efforts.

I've bolded a couple of bits that now seem even more apposite.

DGRossetti · 20/09/2020 11:03

Meanwhile FB throws up odd nightmarish images. This could be some nightmare about a future where JRM is a god ... (note to self, checkout the film ...)

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?
Peregrina · 20/09/2020 11:10

Thanks for that prettybird. The same sentiment informed my vote in the Referendum - what is right? Which stopped me voting Leave to give Cameron a kick in the teeth.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 13:31

@Peregrina

Thanks for that prettybird. The same sentiment informed my vote in the Referendum - what is right? Which stopped me voting Leave to give Cameron a kick in the teeth.
... I wonder how many voting in the ref saw a red button marked "fuck Cameron" and pressed it,

but have since doubled down on their Leave decision and grabbed every possible justification for Leave

  • because they realise how earth / UK-shaking that vote was in its consequences and can't bring themselves to acknowledge they ignored all else but giving Cameron a kicking for austerity.
BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 13:34

Hands, face, space? Johnson's Covid message has got priorities wrong, scientists warn

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/19/scientists-criticise-uks-hands-face-space-campaign-to-control-covid-19-coronavirus" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/19/scientists-criticise-uks-hands-face-space-campaign-to-control-covid-19-coronavirus
.....
The latest drive to help halt the spread of Covid-19 has been criticised by senior scientists
for placing insufficient emphasis on the issues of ventilation and the need to stay apart from others.

They say the government’s “hands, face, space” campaign stresses handwashing and the wearing of masks as key factors in controlling coronavirus transmission,
while the need to keep apart has been downplayed, despite it being the single critical factor involved in the spread of Covid-19.

“As long as people keep emphasising handwashing over aerosol transmission and ventilationn, you are not going to control this pandemic,”
virologist Julian Tang, of Leicester Royal Infirmary, told the Observer.

He pointed to studies that suggest contact is the cause of transmission of the Covid-19 virus in only about 20% of cases
while aerosol transmission, often in poorly ventilated rooms, accounted for the rest.
< in Germany I've heard estimaates that only 10% of infections are from surfaces of any kind >

He was backed by the anthropologist Jennifer Cole, at Royal Holloway, University of London, who said
the government’s recommendations had been placed in the wrong order.

“Space is the largest mitigating factor in the spread of Covid-19, indoors or outdoors.

Wearing a face covering does not make it entirely safe to go within 2 metres of others;
keeping your distance is still the best strategy,”
she said.
“Handwashing is important, but surface transmission plays a much smaller role than exhaled droplets,
so it is odd that ‘hands’ has been listed first.”

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 13:35

The German slogan is "AHA"

which roughly stands for "Space, hands, masks"

so putting the most important measure first

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 13:37

British emphasis on handwashing is obviously because it has v little effect on schools, work, going out to spend money,
compared to SD

but...
SD is by far the most effective measure

ListeningQuietly · 20/09/2020 14:12

In Japan its CCC
Crowds
Confinement
Coughs
and its possible to run the economy efficiently while still obeying that
so long as everybody accepts masks in crowds

sadly the UK has a crap team at the top

HilaryThorpe · 20/09/2020 14:23

We have mains, masques, mètre, though I have seen it in different orders.

prettybird · 20/09/2020 15:11

Enough of the "UK" campaign Grin - that's BJ's the English campaign. The Scottish Government's campaign is "FACTS" - Face covering, Avoid Crowded Spaces, Clean your hands regularly, Two metre distance and Self-isolate. So the distance aspect is in there effectively twice, with both the exhortation to avoid crowded spaces and to maintain a two metre distance.

It's been promoted since the beginning of August and Nicola repeats it at the end of every briefing (4-5 days a week - still televised Wink)

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?
Jason118 · 20/09/2020 15:15

Look at you @prettybird showing off with your sensible leader and consistent message delivery Grin

ListeningQuietly · 20/09/2020 17:35

Blerdy Scots using the English language effectively Wink

AdaHopper · 20/09/2020 19:36

The real reason for Brexit out in the open?

www.bbc.com/news/uk-54226107

AdaHopper · 20/09/2020 19:37

"The UK is called a "higher risk jurisdiction" like Cyprus, according to the intelligence division of FinCEN. That's because of the number of UK registered companies that appear in the SARs. Over 3,000 UK companies are named in the FinCEN files - more than any other country."

mathanxiety · 20/09/2020 20:15

Here in the northern midwest US, the local big city mayor has become a meme star thanks to her stern demeanour -
do312.com/p/our-favorite-mayor-lightfoot-stay-home-memes

mathanxiety · 20/09/2020 20:22

Yes indeed, Prettybird - it comes down to self determination. Both Brexit and Covid have thrown the issue into stark relief.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 20:35

Oh gawd, someone let Bernard Jenkin MP out of the nuthouse again

  • at least, I hope this is his own fantasy, not the Torygraph floating a govt idea again

"Time for the PM to take back control from unaccountable advisers – and bring in the Armed Forces"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/20/time-pm-take-back-control-incompetent-advisers-bring-armed/

RedToothBrush · 20/09/2020 20:53

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/4029104-Westministender-Amen-to-that?watched=1

NEW THREAD.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 20/09/2020 21:28

You can almost imagine him in a parallel universe sat at home spending thousands on American Infomercials, Time Share Apartments, MLM schemes and other assorted dodgy scams.

There's a Brooklyn Bridge joke in there somewhere.

Tanith · 22/09/2020 08:05

Yes, but that's five points, Prettybird, not three. Two whole extra points for the public to cope with.

I used to think it was us that couldn't handle more than three.
These days, I'm more of the opinion that they can't come up with more than three at any one time.

cdtaylornats · 07/12/2020 13:15

I don't see why we play the EU game. I would offer 10% of fishing rights provided a deal was done but only French boats.

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