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Brexit

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 18:09

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

OP posts:
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TheElementsOfMedical · 14/09/2020 09:58

twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1305107315876671490?s=20

The UK Government admits that 80% of the boost from the recent trade deal signed with Japan will accrue to Japan.

For its proposed deal with Australia, the imbalance is even more extreme. Check out how much it thinks imports and exports will rise!

Clavinova · 14/09/2020 10:01

In the bilateral UK-Japan agreement announced in principle on Friday, London and Tokyo have agreed to replicate the restrictions on subsidies in the EU-Japan deal that went into effect last year.

That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.

I think this is a red herring from the Financial Times. From what I understand, the UK government want to give state aid to new start-up companies (particularly in the technology sector) - EU rules currently hamper this type of state aid as well.These new start-ups may also have a base in Northern Ireland.

mrslaughan · 14/09/2020 10:22

You would.

Darker · 14/09/2020 10:24

I haven't seen the Sky interview with DC but his response seems very weak. BBC: Mr Cameron said he had "misgivings" over it and breaking an international treaty should be the "final resort". BBC also predicting that the bill will get through the vote tonight.

SabrinaThwaite · 14/09/2020 10:25

A robust domestic system similar to state aid would still permit some subsidies to support the government’s strategic priorities (net zero, ‘levelling up’ and the tech industry, for example) as they are anyway covered by exemptions in the existing state aid system.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/beyond-state-aid.pdf

Speaking to the Financial Times, McCarthy said: “Until now, the [EU] state aid rules have been cited as a reason for restricting a large number of homegrown start-ups from accessing liquidity support.

“The removal of this impediment will enable the [Irish] Government and its agencies to urgently channel funds to viable innovation-driven companies that can provide an important source of economic growth post-Covid.

www.siliconrepublic.com/start-ups/eu-start-ups-state-aid-covid-19

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 10:26

David Cameron

Can fuck right off. He is no better than Boris - and let's make damn sure popular history makes we all know. If not the books, then the songs.

Here's why ... read this carefully.

Passing an act of Parliament and then going on to break an international treaty obligation is the very, very last thing you should contemplate, it should be an absolute final last resort.

His isn't actually saying Boris is necessarily wrong. Because (subtext) there are times when it's more than OK to renege on treaties signed in god faith.

Once again, demonstrating the efficiency of cynicism, I don't need to research any further to know that no one has actually challenge the Pigfucker general and asked him in what circumstances it is acceptable to renege on a deal.

Bear in mind here we are talking about a treaty entered into freely by both sides. We weren't under military occupation at the time, and were always free to choose not to sign. Just in case Boris wants' to make the Nazi comparisons complete and whinge that it was the equivalent to the Treaty of the Versailles

Clavinova · 14/09/2020 10:31

“The removal of this impediment will enable the [Irish] Government and its agencies to urgently channel funds to viable innovation-driven companies that can provide an important source of economic growth post-Covid.

The new framework in the link is described as "temporary."

SabrinaThwaite · 14/09/2020 10:35

It’s temporary in relation to bailing out failing companies due to Covid.

And the IFG report clearly states that state aid is currently available for tech companies.

SabrinaThwaite · 14/09/2020 10:38

*failing small companies

mrslaughan · 14/09/2020 10:47

DGR - completely agree with you..... thought his statement was completely weasel-ly.....

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 10:54

TL;DR: No (Betteridges Law)

www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/can-you-name-one-company-that-has-moved-to-the-uk-because-of-brexit/14/09/

A Brexit quandary has been making the rounds on social media as the Britain’s exit from the union looms.

With just months to go until the end of the transition period and just weeks until the two sides must arrive at a deal, reminders of the potential economic fall out of the split have been circulating online.

Last year it was reported that a raft of companies have left the UK to safeguard themselves from the negative effects of withdrawing from the union.

But few people could think of businesses which have moved the other way.

Clavinova · 14/09/2020 10:58

It’s temporary in relation to bailing out failing companies due to Covid.

"EU commissioner Margrethe Vestager has agreed to temporarily relax state aid rules that the tech industry argued were holding up several countries’ support for start-ups, reported the Financial Times."

"Many venture-backed technology companies are classified as being in “financial difficulty” under EU rules because they are run at a loss to accelerate growth or have sold a large portion of the company to investors."

"As a result, under state aid rules designed to prevent countries from propping up failing national companies, many European start-ups are unable to benefit from the kind of state support that has been made widely available to more traditional businesses in recent months."

"The EU is now moving to extend the “temporary framework” introduced in March to relax state aid rules for struggling companies, so that it includes innovative start-ups and other “micro and small companies”.

www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/eu-to-relax-state-aid-rules-for-start-ups/

SabrinaThwaite · 14/09/2020 11:01

I can read my own links, it’s to enable SMEs to access Covid relief funds, hence “temporary”.

Clavinova · 14/09/2020 11:12

DGRossetti
Last year it was reported that a raft of companies have left the UK to safeguard themselves from the negative effects of withdrawing from the union.

Your source is out of date. From the link, which is dated 14th September;
"Companies which have deserted Britain since Brexit:"

Unilever

11 June;
"Unilever picks London as its home over Rotterdam."

"Anglo-Dutch conglomerate denies U-turn after finally choosing the UK capital over Dutch city as its HQ."

"The business secretary, Alok Sharma welcomed the Unilever plan, tweeting: “Delighted to see Unilever’s proposals to become a fully incorporated UK company–a clear vote of confidence in the UK.”

"The Dutch government, however, was disappointed by the latest review."

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/11/unilever-picks-london-as-its-home-over-rotterdam

But few people could think of businesses which have moved the other way.

Jan 2020 -

"More than 1,400 EU-based firms have applied for permission to operate in the UK after Brexit, with over 1,000 of these planning to establish their first UK office, according to a Freedom of Information request (FOI) by financial regulatory consultancy Bovill. The FOI provides evidence that London and the UK will continue to be a leading player on the global financial stage after Brexit." ...

“Although much attention has been given to the number of UK firms moving staff and operations into Europe, there is also likely to be movement in the opposite direction.The results of the FOI may have been anticipated by those in the industry, many of whom have recognised for some time that London remains Europe’s only truly global financial centre, and firms on the continent with global aspirations will need to continue to do business here.”

www.bovill.com/london-set-to-remain-financial-services-capital-of-europe-as-over-1000-eu-firms-plan-to-open-uk-offices/

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 11:29

.

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?
ListeningQuietly · 14/09/2020 12:05

David Attenborough speaks out
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54118769
The planet speaks out
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54127279
The CBI speak out
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54138583

and all the Brexiters care about is that we can sell Stilton to Japan
which we already could

RedToothBrush · 14/09/2020 12:06

Rehman Chishti @rehman_chishti
I’ve written to the PM resigning as PM’s Special Envoy on FoRB. I can’t support Internal Market Bill in its current form, which unilaterally break UK’s legal commitments. As an MP for 10yrs & former Barrister, values of respecting rule of law & honouring one’s word are dear to me

Apparently about a dozen tory mps who are currently openly grumbling, but not clear if they rebel outright.

But noise is there a quite a few more unhappy behind the scenes.

The magic number is about 40, to be a problem for Johnson, in case you are wondering.

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?
OP posts:
DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 12:09

I'd be fascinated to know if Liz Truss managed to fuck up so badly she sold the Brexiteers down the river, or if she was acting under orders (presumably written in crayon ?).

If state aid is something the Brexiteers are concerned about, then surely the US is even more pernickety than the EU ?

Meanwhile, can't speak for anywhere but my patch of England, but it is the most glorious late summer/autumn day you could imagine. Utterly blue sky. 24C. You could if you wished wear shorts and T-Shirt.

It's the sort of day I'd like to bottle and give to my grandchilden.

TheElementsOfMedical · 14/09/2020 12:10

Apparently about a dozen tory mps who are currently openly grumbling

They might make uncomfortable noises now, but in the end most of them will glide spinelessly through the government's lobby when the time comes.

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 12:15

The way I see it, any MP that voted for the WA - under pain of Johnsons loyalty oath - is now excused from that oath. Moreover the internal markets bill is effectively opposing the bill they voted for.

I can't see the vote failing. But if it did, it would be Johnsons problem. Not the Tories - who have done all he made them promise to do.

If they wanted an escape route. This isn't a Tory problem. Yet. It is a Johnson problem.

I wonder if that sneaky fucker Gove is doubling down in public (so no accusations of "betrayal") but behind the scenes is nudging a few supporters in that direction.

The question is how would Gove handle this without resorting to treaty breaking ?

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 14/09/2020 12:17

Another one here not impressed with DC's words. Weasly indeed. Almost encouraging what BJ is doing.

Clav January 2020 was a long time ago (it's been that sort of a year). Can you provide an update on which companies have now moved staff to London? Or ones which are actively planning to do so? I think we're all desperate for some good news these days.

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 12:23

Another one here not impressed with DC's words. Weasly indeed. Almost encouraging what BJ is doing.

He has a vested interest in Brexit not being pinned on him. That means of necessity Boris has to to as badly as possible. Obviously if the UK suffers it's a shame. But that was the gamble David Cameron took.

I wonder what flows into the UK could be at risk if the bill passes. My guess is immediately security and criminal intelligence.

DGRossetti · 14/09/2020 12:25

Ian Blackford blasts 'delusional' Kit Malthouse over Brexit treaty claim

THE Tory Government has been branded “delusional” after the UK Policing Minister claimed international treaties are not bound by the “letter of the law”.

Speaking ahead of a Commons vote on the much derided Internal Market Bill, Kit Malthouse revealed he will vote for the proposals even if they break international legislation.

That admission was described as “gobsmacking” by Ian Blackford, who dubbed the Tory administration a “shower of charlatans”.

Malthouse, speaking to BBC Breakfast, said: "I'll be voting for the bill because I don't believe that if that circumstance should arise, where food is prevented from moving

from GB to Northern Ireland, that the Prime Minister has any choice but to take powers to allow Tesco to stock the shelves in Belfast."

Asked if he would do so even if it broke international law, the Tory MP stated: "I will be voting for the bill this afternoon, yes."

The Policing Minister added: “International treaties are as much about the spirit and the intent as they are about the letter of the law.

“No-one contemplated that this situation would occur and I’ve yet to hear a compelling solution … to that practical issue that we’re faced with that hopefully will never occur, but may occur in the future, and why we shouldn’t have an insurance policy for that.”

HoneysuckIejasmine · 14/09/2020 12:32

I know a solution. Stay in the single market.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 14/09/2020 12:33

BBC News - Wetherspoon: 66 staff test positive across 50 pubs
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54144130

Oh dear.

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