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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

OP posts:
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SunnyUplandsOhNoTurnipSoup · 10/09/2020 13:36

Another rushed bill that MPs "won't have time to read"

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 13:44

I wonder just how many Tory MPs will have the guts to vote it down?

Peregrina · 10/09/2020 13:50

I read somewhere once that rushed legislation is always bad legislation. It was nothing to do with Brexit, it was long before then.

So was this planned all along, back when he got his Oven Ready Deal that they were too lazy to read?

FrankieStein402 · 10/09/2020 13:57

Statistician on R4 today this am pointing out that the problem with mass testing is the false positives - if you have a false positive rate of only 1% which would be 'good' that means 1% of the population being quarantined needlessly - with impact on their contacts, economic behaviour etc.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 14:03

@FrankieStein402

Statistician on R4 today this am pointing out that the problem with mass testing is the false positives - if you have a false positive rate of only 1% which would be 'good' that means 1% of the population being quarantined needlessly - with impact on their contacts, economic behaviour etc.
Authoritarian regimes don't like the idea of false positives - or negatives. It means you need to waste time effort and money on things like appeals and the like, as well as the idea that the state can get things wrong.
FatCatThinCat · 10/09/2020 14:03

So they're giving this more time for scrutiny than the withdrawal bill?

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 10/09/2020 14:07

Frankie someone on TWAO today said no test is ever 100% reliable. So we have to be able to accommodate false positive & false negative. Unfortunately.

ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 14:23

COVID tests were running at false negative rates of up to 30%
and the false positives arise from the fact that virus detected may be dead
we will not know the true rates for several years

DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 14:37

Little bit of activism for those with the stomach ...

If you want to send a similar one to your Local Conservative Association, here's what to do: 1) Google search "local conservative association [your area]", 2) Copy their email details (they may also have a phone number should you wish to call them), 3) Write to them politely along the same lines. You may even say you're doing research and ask for their confirmation that they support the government's position on breaching contract (if they confirm, you have something for the local press). If you wish to use the text I used - here it is: "Dear Sir/Madam, You are my Local Conservative Association. As I understand, the Conservative Party advocates signing contracts in bad faith and breaching them after they are signed. As such, could you please provide me with a list of all of your members, and also local businesses who are supportive of your party, so that I might ensure that I never unwittingly enter into any contractual arrangements with any of them. With thanks and warm wishes," 4) If they reply that they cannot because it would breach GDPR rules, you could consider replying "Yes, that's true - but only in a limited and specific way".

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn
ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 14:43

If they try to hide behind GDPR for businesses, report them to the ICO Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2020 15:13

'Waste and corruption on a cosmic scale': Plans for 10 million COVID-19 tests attacked

That was the Mission Statement

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-scientists-doubtful-as-leaked-government-document-reveals-plans-for-10-million-tests-by-next-year-12067722

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2020 15:32

@RedToothBrush

Maybe, but perhaps we’re crediting this bunch of eejits with too much intelligent deviousness

Or we are talking about trained and successful political election campaigners who are running the country outside election time in the same manner and know when to drop their dead cats to maximum effect.

Well what do you know. Take a look at this:

Well

Sarah Calkin @sjcalkin (of the local government chronicle)

Just been told by @mhclg (ministry of housing, communities and local government) there will be no extra funding for the Covid secure marshals announced by the PM yesterday.

So of the headlines from yesterdays press conference one is not scientifically possible & another is something they would like skint councils to do for free

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RedToothBrush · 10/09/2020 15:51

Kate McCann @KateEMcCann
Oof. EU post meeting statement on UK Internal Market Bill - remove the clauses which break international rules by the end of the month or we'll take legal action against you:
ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_20_1607

Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič: "The EU does not accept the argument that the aim of the draft Bill is to protect the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement. In fact, it is of the view that it does the opposite."

"By putting forward this Bill, the UK has seriously damaged trust between the EU and the UK. It is now up to the UK government to re-establish that trust."

"The Withdrawal Agreement contains a number of mechanisms and legal remedies to address violations of the legal obligations contained in the text – which the European Union will not be shy in using

At pretty much the same time the UK Government published details of the legal argument underpinning the UK Internal Market Bill clauses
t.co/FOamI2TpZK?amp=1

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DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 16:03

Anyone else hearing Harry Hill ?

Fight ! Fight ! Fight !

TokyoSushi · 10/09/2020 16:12

Well, this afternoon seems to have only made things worse!

Does anybody know when the vote on the Internal Market Bill in due to take place in parliament?

TokyoSushi · 10/09/2020 16:15

Apologies, should have googled first, this seems to have a little while to run yet then, from parliament.uk...

^What happens next?

MPs will next consider the Bill at Second Reading on Monday 14 September 2020, followed by consideration in Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday 15, Wednesday 16, Monday 21 and Tuesday 22 September 2020.^

services.parliament.uk/bills/2019-21/unitedkingdominternalmarket.html

DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 16:16

@TokyoSushi

Well, this afternoon seems to have only made things worse!

Does anybody know when the vote on the Internal Market Bill in due to take place in parliament?

I think next week is slated for debate, so presumably after that.

I'm guessing the EUs warning shot is to all MPs in the process now. They can choose to break the law, or they can choose not to.

The world is watching.

Darker · 10/09/2020 16:20

Why oh why did I choose this month to stay off Twitter? Grin

Songsofexperience · 10/09/2020 16:23

The world is watching.

Again. It's pretty sad to have become the political equivalent of Eastenders.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2020 16:25

@Darker

Why oh why did I choose this month to stay off Twitter? Grin
Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up cocaine ...
OchonAgusOchonO · 10/09/2020 16:35

@DGRossetti - Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up cocaine ...

You're showing your age Grin. It was on TV a while back and I decided not to watch it as I was afraid it mightn't be as good as I remember and I would have hated my memories of it to be ruined.

prettybird · 10/09/2020 16:35

So the government's "legal" word deliberately in quotes Wink argument is that parliamentary sovereignty trumps international treaties/law Confused

Then the parliamentarians shouldn't have fucking agreed to the Withdrawal Bill then Shock

Effectively they're arguing that parliaments can always decide that they no longer want to abide by an international treaty that they don't like.

How incompetent can they be? AngryConfused Don't answer that Wink

IHeartSusanDey · 10/09/2020 16:37

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Never underestimate the strength of feeling among Unionists in NI. It's in their DNA.

The demographics have changed now. Catholics/nationalists will be in the majority in just a couple of years. The loyalists are loyal to a Britain that has changed and that doesn't want them! They are loyal to a Britain of the past that doesn't exist.

Plus, in a phone in on Radio Ulster, most of the young unionists ringing in were interested in finding out about the benefits of reunification. Their future in the EU means more than loyalty to a Britain that has left them behind.

It annoys me to hear Irish people who are less than enthusiastic about reunification. Partition does NOT work. The North of Ireland was the most successful part of the whole island before it. We had the shipyards and the industry. The British failed it.

Ireland was horrifically oppressed for centuries...wtf is the matter with people that they would betray their ancestors and their heritage by keeping part of their country tied to an historical enemy? Not only that, a reunited Ireland would bring in so much investment....millions of pounds worth. The EU would help it succeed and yes, Britain SHOULD pay reparation.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2020 16:37

@Songsofexperience

The world is watching.

Again. It's pretty sad to have become the political equivalent of Eastenders.

Wait for the duff duffers...
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ListeningQuietly · 10/09/2020 16:39

Jason118
That Fish import export information page is pretty standard.
When the Brexiters shout about zero tariffs they utterly forget about Not Tariff Rules like standards and safety regulations.

And as HMG are now posting links about the paperwork for moving goods between England/Wales/Scotland and Northern Ireland
it sounds like the Left hand has no idea what the Left hand is doing.