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Brexit

Westminstenders: Where are we now?

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 21:21

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
Jason118 · 15/06/2020 00:24

It has very little to do with geography and everything to do with bravado, rhetoric, and populism politics. It barely registers on our GDP, it's the biggest squirrel in the negotiation forest right now, I'm sure there are others to follow.

prettybird · 15/06/2020 00:59

Cyprus is an EU state and is an island therefore surrounded by the sea Confused

Denmark is surrounded by the sea and only had a border of 68km with Germany. Much shorter than the border between NI and Ireland. Confused

Although at least Hate mentioned Malta.

Peregrina · 15/06/2020 01:05

Denmark has only one land border and at 68 km it's significantly shorter than the one between NI and RoI. Unless of course you don't see the Republic of Ireland as a separate country and can't see why on earth they don't want to join in with Brexit.

Fishing isn't obvious. The boat owners voluntarily sold their quotas to the EU - predominantly to the Dutch, remember? No probably not. No one forced them to. But it's a nice diversionary tactic - nasty EU not letting us have our fishing rights back, boo hoo, when we didn't want them anyway.

The real story is the Government reneging or ratting would be a better word, on our food quality in absolute desperation to get a deal with the USA. Remember the Tory pary manifesto promised that we wouldn't compromise on our food standards? No you probably didn't read that, in the same way that half the Government didn't read the Withdrawal Agreement, rather forgetting that it's an international agreement.

UK says nyet and moves on.
Oh absolutely. The EU says, fine by us.We have got better things to do, you are the ones who chose to leave. You thought you could cherry pick the best bits without paying and you have had your bluff called. You are the ones who import 53% of your fresh food, mostly from us, not the other way round. We have got better things to do

Sostenueto · 15/06/2020 08:14

Whitty and Valance supposedly on resignation watch. Scully says he knows nothing about rumour and government still working with scientists. This was on sky news. Crickey! If they do resign it would be because the government will change distancing rules and the scientists are really concerned☹️

Sostenueto · 15/06/2020 08:15

Matt Hancock has not consulted any local bodies about local lockdowns despite saying he has.

Sostenueto · 15/06/2020 08:26

Sunday times...
source told the Sunday Times that they were worried the scientists would 'minute' their opposition to any change, meaning it would be published in records of Sage meetings. And that means it will be published publically.

CrunchyCarrot · 15/06/2020 08:32

Matt Hancock has not consulted any local bodies about local lockdowns despite saying he has.

Par for the course for him. As I'm sure everyone will recall, he said he'd consulted with the supermarkets to ensure food would be delivered to the self-isolating, when in fact he'd done no such thing. Then there was the 100,000 testing goal. It just keeps coming. Hmm

I never thought there was any hope of getting the Tories out of office when this lot was elected last year, but they should be careful what they wish for, Coronavirus has been testing every government on the planet, plus they have got the Brexit stupidity to deal with now as well (or not deal with as they're letting the minutes tick by till we No Deal). I honestly hope they are kicked out next election, and hope Labour have gotten themselves better organised by then, but it seems a long way off at the moment.

yoikes · 15/06/2020 08:36

If they had any sense they'd have quit as soon as they were booted out of the briefings for not supporting DC.

It's clear where this Govt are going...
No deal Brexit (the point all along . BIG money maker for disaster capitalists!)

Blaming the fall out on brexit and the scientists

Invoking the CCA

I wouldn't worry about the next election crunchy

There may not be one for some time

AuldAlliance · 15/06/2020 09:24

Do many people in the UK call it "the Brexit"?

Peregrina · 15/06/2020 10:24

I agree, they should have walked out as soon as it was clear that the Govt wasn't listening to their advice but was setting them up to be the fall guys.

It's been a difficult balance for any Government trying to set off the needs of the economy against the health of the public, but ours has been spectacularly inept.

However with incompetence we saw at the end of last year - not offering assistance with the flooding e.g. not helping with the flooding and hiding in fridges, didn't do any harm whatever. It was all better than Corbyn was supposed to have been.

DGRossetti · 15/06/2020 10:29

Remember the Tory party manifesto promised that we wouldn't compromise on our food standards?

And ?

Politicians twigged years ago that's as much use as a chocolate fireguard. You can't enforce it in parliament, and I don't see how the HoL could reject legislation that is breaking that commitment.

You have better rights when you buy a biro from your corner shop than you do electing politicians. Another stand feeding into peoples lack of faith in the system and willingness to use "other means" to be heard.

CrunchyCarrot · 15/06/2020 10:40

@AuldAlliance

Do many people in the UK call it "the Brexit"?
Can't say I've ever heard it called that.
DGRossetti · 15/06/2020 10:44

yorkshirebylines.co.uk/dover-calais-and-the-chaos-to-come/

Unlike Raab, Peter Foster went to Dover ...

yorkshirebylines.co.uk
Dover-Calais and the chaos to come – Yorkshire Bylines
Anthony Robinson
6-7 minutes
Michiel Hendryckx / CC BY-SA

Peter Foster, public policy editor at the Financial Times has been to Dover to find out how prepared they are for leaving the single market and the customs union at the end of the year. His article is “Dover-Calais post-Brexit trade plagued by uncertainty.”

The government apparently promised to publish a plan in March, entitled ‘border operating model’, which was supposed to explain how our borders are to be controlled after 31 December. According to the FT, it was delayed and then promised for April, then May. It is now expected later this month.

Foster tweeted a link to his article:

What emerges is a picture of the management of our most important trading artery paralysed by uncertainty and having no information from government on what to plan for. All they know is that huge changes are coming and they have a little more than six months to get ready.

The key points are that firstly, there is zero chance of building any customs facilities at Dover. “Between the vertical chalk cliffs and the granite harbour wall there is simply no space to build new facilities. Even today the port has fewer than 10 lorry bays for customs checks.” writes Foster.

The same problem arises at Folkestone, where Eurotunnel handles 1.5m trucks a year. John Keefe, the director of public affairs at Getlink, the tunnel’s owner says, “We just have no space.”

Tim Reardon the head of EU Exit for Dover Port says the new system, whatever it is, will involve a “huge step-change” in the way Dover operates.

At the moment, freight from non-EU countries arrives in Dover “unaccompanied”. In other words, it comes in crates or containers that can sit in docks and airport warehouses until cleared for shipping to the importer.

He explains that Dover is not a depot but a “gateway” through which Ro-Ro (Roll on-Roll off) HGVs pass, up to 10,000 per day. The same processes that apply to unaccompanied boxes can’t be applied to trucks, as they can’t be parked for days while the contents are checked for contraband, VAT fraud or illegal products.

Currently, just four minutes after exiting the ferry, a truck can be out of the port and on its way.

Facilities will therefore need to be constructed elsewhere. The two potential sites “under discussion” are a truck park in Ashford and an existing customs park at the Stop 24 Folkestone services. These are 15–20 miles up the M20 motorway from Dover. There is also the suggestion that other customs centres are built around the country to avoid potential traffic bottlenecks on the south coast, in what some have described as a smugglers charter.

However, there is no sign of a planning application going in as far as Yorkshire Bylines is aware.

The French have already developed a system that works onboard the ferries as they cross the Channel. Declarations are filed beforehand and are read by barcode to identify each individual truck and load. Screens onboard show which trucks can drive straight-off the ferry in Calais (green) and which trucks will need to go for checks (orange). This is apparently already up and running and the freight companies are pressing the UK to buy a licence to run the same system on traffic in the other direction – but the government has refused.

John Keefe told Foster the big issue is really one of business preparedness:

<span class="italic">“The sudden change in administrative burden from ‘you don’t have to do anything’ today to ‘you may have to do everything’ is huge. There is a great deal of uncertainty and little time to sort it out.”</span>
<span class="italic">John Keefe, Director of public affairs at Getlink, FT June 8 2020</span>

Richard Burnett of the RHA has written to Penny Mordaunt at the Foreign Office asking for the transition to be delayed but was told no – businesses have to prepare. The problem is they don’t know what for and the government cannot or will not tell them.

Note also this Twitter thread from Michael M – a former logistics/freight forwarder explaining that the warnings of food shortages in January are not scaremongering but entirely possible, and certain if we leave without a trade deal.

Michael talks about the complexity of customs forms and declarations and how even if we manage to recruit and train 50,000 form-fillers in time (a very big IF) they will be inexperienced. He points to the 20 per cent error rate in customs documentation on the long-standing EU-Swiss border. What hope is there, he asks, for a smooth transition?

Coupled with that, the UK is moving from the old CHIEF (customs handling of import and export freight) computer system, to a new one called CDS (customs declaration service) in 2021.

Finally, Michael points out the UK has deliberately opted out of being part of the same safety and security zone as the EU and EFTA and hence each consignment will need a separate declaration to be made by the carrier as well as the customs declaration by the consignor. This apparently amounts to tens or hundreds of additional forms per load on the 10,000 loads crossing the channel daily.

Two more tweets and threads are worth reading. Firstly the Road Haulage Association warns of a 400 per cent increase in customs transactions from 1 Jan and 50,000 more customs agents needed. Richard Burnett says “time’s running out…”

And this one from Laurie Driver who claims the industry is 50,000 drivers short, a situation which at the moment is masked because we supplement our HGV workforce with drivers from the EU.

He says the unsociable hours and low pay aren’t attractive and after Brexit this is set to become a big issue. It isn’t just fruit pickers that we will be short of, we can add HGV drivers to that list.

This is a mess four years in the making.

As we approach the beginning of the fifth year after the referendum one begins to hear the sound of pennies dropping in Kent and perhaps even Westminster. Who knows, they may soon be heard in Downing Street.

yoikes · 15/06/2020 10:48

Some "interesting" use of english from some posters Smile

SabrinaThwaite · 15/06/2020 11:03

Some "interesting" use of english from some posters

Careful now, you’ll end up with posts in Albanian Smile

DGRossetti · 15/06/2020 11:08

Anyone else read the WA ?

(I'm working from the ext here )

In Article 54

Continued protection in the United Kingdom of registered or granted rights

There is buried this statement:

This paragraph shall apply unless and until an agreement as referred to in Article 184 that supersedes this paragraph enters into force or becomes applicable.

Now I'm no international lawyer, because the UK clearly doesn't do that. But is the interpretation of some - that it will continue to bind the UK until a deal is reached - correct ?

As far as I can see it's the only exception in the entire agreement.

AuldAlliance · 15/06/2020 11:35

That was what I thought yoikes...was just checking I'm not totally out of touch.

Bodoni · 15/06/2020 12:10

Maybe you know more than me but I seem to remember the poster I think you’re referring to saying a while back they were of East European origin long resident in the UK, so I wouldn’t expect their English to be 100%. Have I missed something?

SabrinaThwaite · 15/06/2020 12:12

Albania I seem to remember Wink

yoikes · 15/06/2020 13:00

No idea...

One or two posters with a very interesting painting style and use of english grammar, that's all :)

DGRossetti · 15/06/2020 14:04

.

Westminstenders: Where are we now?
spottedelk · 15/06/2020 14:07

China's talking the new Beijing outbreak very seriously. People travelling from Beijing to other cities are being quarantined for 14 days.

Peregrina · 15/06/2020 14:11

For a second I believed that picture DGR!

DGRossetti · 15/06/2020 14:12

For a second I believed that picture DGR!

Cold War Steve Smile