Westminstenders: Where are we now?

[RedToothBrush]

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

How will that explain Japan being nasty to the UK ?

You have to ask the Brexiters to explain this one - perhaps they will try to say that the EU twisted Japan's arm?

You are MUCH safer sitting in the sunshine

But we have no suitable outdoor space. Being in time for the flu season is not so bad when the high risk groups are entitled to free vaccination. We have coped in previous winters.

In fact - and this is how bad it is. I would trust Harold Shipman to have my interests at heart over Boris Johnson.

Bloody awful thing to say, and terrifyingly true.

I think I'm with listening on this.

I'd rather meet in the sunshine in a suitably large outside space (for example a park if not a garden) than in the Autumn.

As it stands I think the way the numbers are working and where transmission seems to be occurring, I think it's reasonably safe as long as you are socially distanced.

Come the autumn I do think undetected cases with result in many more localised outbreaks and that will be a problem come October / November time. That's where we will hit a second wave not in the immediate future.

And we won't have too many lockdown solutions at that point. The mentality will be 'get on with it' far more than it previously was, so it then lie with this sense of 'personal responsibility'.

Wow even I remember that doctor from old news.

That places your estimation on Bojo to be falling so so short of expectations!

From memory this doctor was deliberately bad/evil when the full extent of his actions and deeds were finally exposed. Found and held guilty of patient murder through the criminal justice system.

Boris has not intentionally directly caused any body to say goodbye before their time. Be it 40-50k plus and counting. That is an important distinguishing material fact. As surely not equivalent to say corporate manslaughter if say your business premises is deemed a Covid incubation hot spot but employees still requested to take a known chance. Unprotected “care homes” springs to mind.

Back to Brexshit Dave thought it was wise to ask man on the street but then try to dictate their response or preferred vote! Man in street said ok thanks let’s try something different. Load and behold that difference ie Brexshit is possibly not the wisest decision? Does not look too rosey on the horizon but let’s hope as nothing much left when things are bad all round globally.

Please someone advise how Brexshit is going to be utopia!?

It isn't.

It's going to be a disaster of epic proportions.

I do hope leavers/brexshitters blame the people who perpetrated this grift on a huge swathe of them.

I listened to the briefing on R4.
Johnson said the measures taken had prevented a 'second wave'.

We are still not over the first one yet.

If it is going to be car crash of historical proportions - can we not start to do anything apart from rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship?

Is it impossible to have buyers remorse and beg for forgiveness like some sort of divorce and remarriage thing?

I was so wavering on which polarised in or out camp to follow? This is going to be something for 40-50 years of pain or success as with former UK history pre and after joining the continental Europeans.

Why ask people who are clueless to have a direct vote initially? Scotland nearly went too but gamble just about paid off. But this take back control democracy thing has set off the whole polarised train of political thoughts process like now hundreds of years after colonial rule for old formerly respected or ignored stuff to resurface!

People now think they have a direct say and if not riot!

The above comment was a follow on from yoikes re Brexit and Bojo.

Brexshit has become a cult and a lot of remainers (like me) are just fucking tired.

Time for them to own their shit.

Do you think Brexshit has already impacted on Covid fatalities? You know - the fight for limited PPE and medical supplies including drugs worldwide and apparently not cooperating with other continental European governments on this.

Any consequential direct Covid loss from this or is it just be because of Bojo & Cummings (and goings) and then SNP etc doing their thing to be different?

Two things the scientific consensus here is saying is 1. there will be a second wave, the issue is only when. Whether it is started by the opening of pubs / relaxing of social distancing / falling apart of public compliance even beyond that that I am witnessing or by the coming of winter / virus mutation remains to be seen. Unless we have the defence of decent testing, track / tracing and quarantine in place then it will be as uncontrolled as the March trajectory . It doesn’t need to be perfect, the systems in China and Hong Kong are full of holes, to get round the China app all you need is to screenshot somebody’s green code 2. There is absolutely no guarantee of immunity persisting especially in the elderly and no reliable way of knowing if you have it in the first place.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia Shipman only killed the old and the frail, whether out of misplaced / twisted kindness or regarding their lives as of no value we may never know. I really don’t see much difference in the act of releasing old people en masse untested to care homes to free up beds for the younger ill (bearing in mind the decision had been taken to prioritise the under 65s and those without severe disabilities for treatment) and protect NHS workers from a peak. We are talking about an NHS that prior to Covid was almost overwhelmed by the over 80s, 5 out of 6 beds on the Orthopaedic ward I Spent time on in the summer. I know people who work in social care who knew full well they were sending Covid into care homes in early March but nobody was listening and they no longer had the statutory safeguarding powers to stop it, they were scrapped at the beginning of March..... I really don’t believe it was entirely cock up, and it wasn’t at least culpable neglect if not guided by actual ideology that already had a record of sidelining / ignoring social care for the elderly and disabled.

I'd rather meet in the sunshine in a suitably large outside space (for example a park if not a garden) than in the Autumn.

Fine for people in their 30s, 40s, 50s, but the oldest in our group is 95. I really would not want her to risk her health.

I've been doing my own risk assessments for some time.

I don't trust this shower of shit with my familys safety.

A note: we aren't out of the first peak yet. Thank you.

We have the unenviable decision if deciding whether in a situation where a young person is in increasing pain and with reducing mobility and needs surgery whether to opt for emergency surgery in the next couple of weeks in a hospital that has not started elective surgery or wait until they have succeeded in fully separating and infection proofing the theatres and beds and restart elective surgery in a month or two. We are waiting to the end of July when It will be clear if the current relaxation starts a second wave, and hopefully there might be a break before a natural second wave. We are following the science not Boris. I am still not sure how you protect your personal safety when The government is not doing so and other people are even ignoring those restriction. Fortunately we are in a position where one member of the family is tested weekly by their responsible employer 😏 so at least we will know if it penetrates our bubble.

Emilyontmoor thank you for your very interesting and informative insight!

You are a credit to this forum! And may you continue to enlighten us all here trying our upmost to work out our own Covid strategies given mixed messages officially sprouted. So much will possibly come out in the wash one day but that day may be forever when it’s finally all done and dusted.

Yoikes Yes cases and deaths are still at the rate where we should have gone into lockdown and the growth trajectory took off. (We may never know the extent of that, there was an outbreak of identical symptoms to Covid well into double figures in a northern village I know well in early March now being investigated by the NHS, this was at a time when the figures said there were 4 in the whole county) It could easily climb again.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia The mixed messages being spouted are political.The scientific messages have been remarkably consistent outside of the political arena. They did not disregard the lessons learned from previous pandemics and implemented in other countries throughout Asia and in New Zealand and latterly in Germany. They have already limited both cases and deaths and the economic impact with the boring logistics of implementing effective public health measures to control infections. Of course the world is facing an evolving situation but much easier to protect people if you are already in control, not just managed to apply the breaks after you almost swerved over a cliff and threw quite a lot of people over it in the process but are still close to the edge, and have decided to ignore the handbrake and speedometer you already have (in local labs and government) in favour of developing one from scratch with big pharma and the techies..... Sorry very convoluted analogy but my frustration comes from having lived through a pandemic on a much safer bus and having close personal experience of the testing debacle...

My ex is already telling the kids they'll be going to the cinema soon

Peregrina
Your 95 year old clearly has MUCH greater faith in the variability of the flu vaccine than I do
(see the 37000 UK flu deaths of 2014/15)

Relying on a vaccine to magically keep us safe in the winter
and thus missing out on a whole summer of sunshine and vitamin D and good company and exercise
seems utterly barking to me
COVID or no COVID

I think what annoys me more than anything about the extraordinary reaction to COVID is the assumption that it will be a one off.
It wont.
THe next one will come in a few years
it might be milder
it might be 20 times worse
but hiding from COVID will not make us resilient to the next one

nor will it make us able to cope with Climate change which has the potential to kill 1000/1000 of us
rather than the 1/1000 that COVID does

I'm becoming more darwinian by the day LQ

My 95 year old friend is a scientist, still has all her marbles, and is perfectly capable of evaluating the evidence for herself. I hope I manage to live as long and useful a life as she has.

A friend has posted this on FB about Trump's Tulsa rally - DGR , care to comment from your techie perspective?

"It's a beautiful thing. Maybe the most beautiful thing America's ever seen" 

No, I've not gone mad.  Y'know how Trump didn't get the crowd he wanted in Tulsa.... well read on. It's even better than you thought.  😄    (Hat tip to [another friend's name] for this) 

"Okay. I'm back. I posted this in response to someone putting the very same post as you, last night.

...It's far far better than just an eggy face for Farage and one badly attended rally.

A tech savvy data analyst on Twitter simply couldn't believe that reporters and "science correspondents" (mainly of the boomer / Gen X crowd) hadn't cottoned on to this in the manner that the k-poppers etc had.

Trump uses the data from his rally attendees for two main  purposes (and he pays Cambridge Analytica big bucks to do this). First is to email election materials. Second is to shill his supporters for campaign funds. The datasets are valuable, almost invaluable to be honest, and the information they contain is gold dust to Trump.

The k-poppers and TikTok crowd registered hundreds of thousands of used one-time only email addresses to register and by doing so they completely corrupted Trump's data sets.

By using the email addresses to confirm their attendance and then deleting them Cambridge Analytica now have no idea who is genuine and who isn't so these datasets are corrupted to the point of being useless.

The beauty of this is the double whammy. They can't risk sending out their 'vote trump' emails or their 'give us a donation' emails because when an email server/address provider (like Gmail or Sky or PlusNet for example) receives a bundle of circular emails but a large proportion of that mail is addressed to email addresses that don't exist (and the k-poppers used them once and closed them, remember) then the recipient company (Gmail, sky, etc) have algorithms that assume that what's actually happening is a Denial of Service attack and deny every email from that IP address. They ALL get bounced. Moreover, the sender's IP address is banned from sending more to that receivers servers. So, even if Trump decided to use his corrupted datasets for a blanket email in the hope that it would at least reach SOME of his support, he simply can't do it because he'll get bounced out.

The TikTok and K-Pop kids knew this. They weren't just about fucking up one of his rallies, they completely dished him, potentially. At the very least they've set the Trump campaign back, I should think, by months. "

Well..that article is a thing of beauty pretty
Thank you