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Brexit

Westminstenders: Where are we now?

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 21:21

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
JeSuisPoulet · 23/06/2020 21:16

YY to putting money into local public health rather than private firms; at the risk of repeating myself even with my basic BSc in PH those of us who studied epidemiology would have done a much better job at running this shitshow - it might sound like hyperbole but I assure you when I pulled my daughter out of school incredulously a week before lockdown I could see we weren't even trying to catch up with tracing the community based transmissions. Frustratingly I'm sidelined every turn I make trying to get a job in the field and even when I am willing to take pay of £20-25k I find you need a MA to compete with 100 others for it. It's really quite baffling for me (and I don't meant to blow my own trumpet here) how people with degrees in this exact niche can be told we aren't needed in any way, shape or form. I'm one of 3 of my cohort who haven't found a PH job and refuse to work for the local Council in admin because we can "make it fit" and get paid more. Sorry, the job situ is clearly triggering me Grin. I guess no one takes a degree and spends 50k on it only to find themselves in a pandemic and STILL unable to find any jobs! Grin.

Anyway, dd has today had a letter saying they are trying to get all kids back to school for 1 week before the end of the term, on a rota. I am in 2 minds still as to whether to send her in but I do also think a 2nd wave will hit (sooner rather than later now pubs/cinemas are opening) and the idea of her not really seeing her friends until the next wave is over... I don't even know if it will be "educational" or just like an end of term jolly. She probably needs the latter too. Are any of you sending kids back?

DGRossetti · 23/06/2020 21:20

The fetish for big data was always vulnerable to such tactics.

Keep an eye out for mandatory online ID requirements via a POTUS executive order. And the shitstom that will set running ....

yoikes · 23/06/2020 21:20

I pulled mine out the same week jesuis fir the same reasons.

Ds2 (11) is back til end of term.

Ds1 (17) breaks up on Friday.

Still no clue when either will be going back in Aug/Sept...

I suppose I ought to plan on buying uniform at some point...

yoikes · 23/06/2020 21:21

Sorry, ds1 hasn't been back. He's Y12 and has had no 1-1, nothing...

DGRossetti · 23/06/2020 21:24

davidhencke.com/2020/06/21/welcome-to-your-new-rulers-uk-commissioners-gove-johnson-and-cummings/

davidhencke.com
Welcome to your new rulers: UK Commissioners Gove, Johnson and Cummings
6-7 minutes
Commissioner Johnson ?
Henry VIII: Pic credit BBC

The most famous rallying cry by the Brexit campaigners was ” Take Back Control”. The people who supported this saw it as simply meaning taking away powers from the unelected European Commissioners in Brussels and giving it back to the British people. It meant the sovereignty of the British Parliament to make laws solely for the British people.

Well a completely ignored report from the House of Lords suggests we are about to discover something altogether different. I wrote about this in Byline Times last week.

The House of Lords Constitution Committee – not a well known body – has done a forensic job examining every bit of legislation passed and going through Parliament to change the law after Brexit becomes a reality on January 1 next year.

These are not just the better known laws like the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 but new Acts of Parliament covering covering agriculture, money laundering, immigration, trade, taxation,reciprocal health agreements and even the granting of road haulage licences.

What this comprehensive analysis reveals is that far from Parliament getting new freedoms to introduce new laws for the British people the powers are being transferred from the European Commission to government ministers and indirectly to government advisers like Dominic Cummings.

What is happening is that the perceived rule from Brussels by Brexiteers is being replaced by a real rule by decree by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.
Henry VIII powers

How you might ask? The answer is the widespread use of what are known as ” Henry VIII ” powers – or more arcanely known as statutory instruments. These are orders allowing ministers to change the law by decree – either putting down an order which Parliament has 90 minutes to debate or a negative order that if MPs don’t spot it is already law unless Parliament can overturn it.

Now what the peers have discovered is that all these bills are littered with these powers – 40 in the agriculture bill alone – giving huge discretion to introduce not only rule by decree but powers to introduce new criminal offences with unlimited fines.

One extraordinary power governing export and import duties give ministers huge powers – including one to change the law by “ public notice” avoiding informing Parliament at all. This brings us back to Tudor times when all Henry VIII had to do was to pin up a notice ordering the dissolution of the monasteries..

Now why does this matter? Take the agriculture bill which will govern the rules if, as the US wants in trade negotiations, for us to import chlorinated chicken and according to recent reports to change food labeling laws in the UK. Now this bill in its initial form gave ministers a Henry VIII power to change the law for the marketing of food including what is on the label.

So if Waitrose followed what it said it will do and clearly label chlorinated chicken a government minister could just change the law by decree making it illegal to do so. And if Waitrose disobeyed they could face unlimited fines.

Now the bill has been modified a bit but MPs and peers ought to be careful that powers don’t sneak in by the back door.
150 new ministerial powers running to 174 pages

Another more obscure Act according to peers also gives huge powers to ministers.

The report said: “The Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill involves a massive transfer of power from the House of Commons to Ministers of the Crown. Ministers are given well over 150 separate powers to make tax law for individuals and businesses. These laws made by Ministers will run to thousands of pages. The Treasury’s delegated powers memorandum, which sets out in detail all these law-making powers, alone runs to 174 pages.”

And ministers are also taking powers in some circumstances to override laws passed by the Scottish Parliament by government decree and to interfere in which already adopted EU case law can be decided by tribunals and lower courts.
Courts facing ministerial directions

The peers were incandescent about the latter.Their report said:

“The granting of broad ministerial powers in the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 to determine which courts may depart from CJEU (Court of Justice of the European Union) case law and to give interpretive direction in relation to the meaning of retained EU law was – and remains – inappropriate.

“Each of these powers should remain the preserve of primary legislation. There is a significant risk that the use of this ministerial power could undermine legal certainty and exacerbate the existing difficulties for the courts when dealing with retained EU law.”

Now in my opinion because of the Covid-19 crisis the government is using this to introduce major changes to our unwritten constitution to bypass Parliament. I don’t blame my lobby colleagues for missing this – the 24/7 news agenda hardly gives them time to study a detailed House of Lords report.

It could be that a post Brexit Parliament may not need to sit as often as now – but just meet occasionally to scrutinise the latest ministerial decree.

I don’t think this is what the average Brexiteer will have envisaged. I don’t think the majority of people in this country want to live in a society where ministers and Downing Street have overweening powers to create new criminal offences by decree without being properly scrutinised by Parliament. We are losing our safeguards by stealth.

JeSuisPoulet · 23/06/2020 21:27

This is it, we've had 3 emails from her teacher and weekly links to outside sources with no marking etc. I don't even know who her potential teachers are for next year! We won't be seeing grandpa for another month at least, so the risk is really only to dd and myself. Although I know I am not at a high risk of death, seeing my friend (slightly healthier than me in that she did a lot of running) still bed bound since March does make me wonder what the hell I would do as a single parent if that happened to me. I've been lucky as dd hasn't had any huge tantrums about it and seems generally happy but I know she would love to go back just for the week.

QueenOfThorns · 23/06/2020 21:33

My DD (Yr 1) is in her third week back now, JeSuisPoulet. We did our own assessment of the risk to her and us (low), and the risk of her carrying COVID into school (negligible as we both WFH and haven’t been anywhere) and decided it was the best thing to do. She has been so much happier having other kids to interact with, so we’re glad we did.

yoikes · 23/06/2020 21:37

Ds2 has been happy being back too.

I had my doubts tbh but they were more centred around going back potentially bring more upsetting than not iyswim?

Ds2 is a sensitive thing and obv school is not like school atm. But he's happy and enjoying seeing his friends and having some routine.

Only 1 from his class hasn't returned (shielding a vulnerable family member
But I think that's because he is in Y6. R and Y1 have not had as many children return.

yoikes · 23/06/2020 21:39

(Also I think our household may have had it back in December/January...so that figure onto our decision too)

mrslaughan · 23/06/2020 21:47

DD is back in for 3 days . It's not about learning - it's all activities.
We looked up local data , looked at how they were managing it and decided at the moment the risk is low. It's been hugely beneficial for her mental health.
Part of our thinking was who knows where we will be in September,.... what school will look like.

ListeningQuietly · 23/06/2020 22:43

prettybird
interesting about the emails
I'm running at about one an hour at the moment
but because I get them through Thunderbird they never show as read online
tee hee

JeSuisPoulet · 23/06/2020 22:49

Thanks, it's good to know as I am thinking sending her back will be a good thing to do. They have a rota in place so will be distanced as much as possible. The one good thing about the mum's being a bit OTT in her class is that none of them would dream of breaking lockdown rules Grin so I suspect they are safer than some.

Thanks for the link DGR, although I just went on a random addition to a bedside added extra on King Henry VIII to dd about how he changed our laws... Grin I think I may be going into a bit more depth than they requested for an 8yo!

RedToothBrush · 23/06/2020 23:11

I suppose I should wish you a Happy 4th Independence Day

Anyway. That Anglesey Meat Factory is now up to 200 cases (out of 450 tests).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53152362
Coronavirus: 200 cases at 2 Sisters meat plant outbreak in Llangefni

I'm thinking this doesn't bode well.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:19

That's frightening, DG

Just after Pretty had cheered me up about Trump's data being fucked

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:23

red Looking at Germany, we'll all have to get used to this - it is the pattern after relaxation of measures:

local outbreaks every week or so,
which can be locked down locally and squashed

  • providing the authorities are on the ball with track & trace and testing.

It's a pain for those in towns locked down
e.g. the big slaughterhouse outbreak has locked down a region containing 350,000 people including closing all schools and daycare, also gyms, pools etc

  • and the Bavarian state government has just ordered their hotels not to accept bookings from that region !
BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:28

Usually though, it's just locking down a care home or at least a smaller area around a meat plant than the recent big outbreak

  • these latest owners are getting a real kicking from all parties and the media, thoroughly deserved for such lack of care for employees and hence the surrounding area

Tighter regulations expected, even though this will put up meat prices somewhat.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:31

Emily Tough decision, but I'd probably go by what the consultant / surgeon recommends

  • they would best assess the need for the op, as well as the risks at the hospital, their current infection rate etc also whether another hospital would be possible
HoneysuckIejasmine · 23/06/2020 23:35

Yes it must be frustrating as a business owner in, for example, Truro, if you had to lockdown because the South West R was going up due to an outbreak in Bristol.

I wonder how the region's would be divided here? Counties seems impractical, maybe too small? Too many? But regions are far too big a measure.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 23/06/2020 23:37

@ prettybird

Wow good stuff amazing read!

Can’t believe it but gosh the power of tech and mischievous minds!

And I thought it was wrong place wrong time!

He has asked China and Russia to be his IT support right? Or is it still Israel?

The power of IT to fuck with politics!

Peregrina · 23/06/2020 23:38

I read about the tik-tok protest yesterday, and thought how smart it was. No person was inconvenienced by demos, there was no violence, but it beat Cambridge Analytica and Trump at their own game.

Didn't they also buy tickets for his Tulsa rally, with no intention of showing up, thus guaranteeing ranks of empty seats?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:44

"hiding from COVID will not make us resilient to the next one

nor will it make us able to cope with Climate change which has the potential to kill 1000/1000 of us "

Listening The aim of lockdown was to cope with this pandemic, not the next ones

  • the best way to cope with those is to invest in better public health systems, health service capacity and build in resilience and rapidly available high spare capacity for both

COVID measures are not intended to help combat climate change,
but neither is building up the NHS, improving the benefit system, resolving the pensions crisis etc
but we don't stop doing those either

BigChocFrenzy · 23/06/2020 23:57

Honesuckle In Germany, lockdowns are only as extensive as need be

A care home or geriatric hospital outbreak would not normally shut down anything else,
as there is usually v little community spread

Local shutdowns when they happen are much smaller than a UK county
It is usually just a town or part of a town
The recent epidemic - several times larger than any previous - locked down 350,000 but that's in a German population of 83 million

The threshold agreed here by Merkel with the leaders of the 16 German states is
any area with a total of 50 cases / 100,000 population within 7 days.
However, state & local leaders of all parties have been cautious and have generally locked down a wider area than the minimum.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 24/06/2020 00:23

Very interesting, thanks BCF. I feel very much like Germany but really the EU as an entity are very much the grown ups in the room right now, which makes me despair of brexit even more.

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2020 00:32

Peter Foster and the Village Hall Competition to Design a Ventilator.

twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1275341344546963459

Peter Foster @PMDFoster
NEW: remember the rush to build basic ventilators? Two experts involved and a Team leader go on record to try and share ‘lessons learned’ from what one called a “village hall” competition - and the need to repeat. Stay with me. 1/thread.

www.ft.com/content/a4574c5c-52f2-4c28-91ef-cd0a0ea2bb9b?shareType=nongift
Medical experts warned UK watchdog against ‘basic’ ventilator drive
Memo pointed up dangers of over-prioritising simple designs, including risk to patients

Cummings and Johnson sure dropped a dead cat with this one didn't they? Announcements about announcements are the ultimate dead cats. We've sure had a lot of annoucements lately.

Strangely, the end of the dadly briefing today - the anniversary of the ref - seems somewhat ironic. It marks something of an end to the Daily Dead Cat where every day a member of Cabinet had to stand up and talk about something to distract from the daily death toll.

That suggests that a new rolling narrative designed by government about to start where the focus in terms of political news moves on to something else.

I have a feeling in my bones we are about to start having annoucements about prelimary closed door discussions regarding transistion talks with the volume being turned up. Except there will be no annoucements and there is about to be a distraction from what they are really up to.

Eyes peeled.

OP posts:
hopefulhalf · 24/06/2020 06:35

I know that with a social group I belong to, where most of the members are elderly, we have decided that despite the restrictions being eased, we don't want to risk meeting again until the autumn.

Just adding my medical voice to say we are expecting a second wave September / October time. I would meet your friends now it's as safe as it will be for a while.

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