Westminstenders: Just another DEADline

[RedToothBrush]

Today is the last scheduled day for talks with the EU.

We have til 30th June to ask for a transition extension. We won't.

That leaves us starring down the barrel of a no deal exit, when we still could be in a covid-19 crisis and the US may be in turmoil given recent events and the coming election...

It's not a pretty picture.

Painful to read and an example, I feel, of why UK has the highest deaths www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/06/ive-been-ill-for-months-but-i-still-dont-know-if-it-is-covid-19 It certainly isn't anywhere near the same as BCF's experience in Germany

I may well have said this before on these threads, but the way I feel now might well be akin to how many people felt in 1930s Germany "I don't like the way this is going, but what can I do?" My DH always used to pooh pooh this and tell me that I was being melodramatic. Not now, not since the Lockdown legislation was passed with little or no Parliamentary scrutiny, and not now that there are clearly one set of rules for the Government, and another for the rest of us.

Trump's support is based on four major groups: the religious right, the conservative constitutionalists (which is particularly army and secret service based), the openly racist facists and the ultra libertarian minded rich.

One of those groups is gathering pace to openly withdraw support for Trump. The army follow the lead of men and leaders they respect. The American general's are respected by the army in a way that Trump can't compete with, if challenged openly. He's a draft dodger who shat on the graves of servicemen.

At this very moment Trump appeals to the religious right by holding a bible. Not a coincidence.

And he said he'd use the army to please the racists...

But the continuing protests (and covid-19) are costing the libertarian rich too much money. They want a resolution not more conflict - and certainly not the prospect of soliders on the streets of their marketplace, risking the destruction of their property.

He's caught between the priorities and key concerns of his different supporters. That makes his position difficult if any group gets too pissed off.

The Democrats are a complete mess. They don't have much of a clue on how to address key issues either.

But ultimately this election is about how Trump manages to unite his different factions and motivate them to return to the poles to vote for him, rather than alternative.

He's in trouble. He's trying to play different groups off each other, but if he loses the support of a significant proportion of any of those groups he's got a major issue on his hands.

Anyone who in those groupings who manages to put together a solid leadership role to unite that particular grouping against Trump is a big problem for Trump

Imagine if the conservative constitutionalists of the Republican party manage to get behind a figure to rival Trump as an Independent candidate.

It would not surprise me if we are seeing the formation of a potential testing of the waters on this.

Many Republicans see Trump's faults, but will vote for him regardless, because he will deliver on what they consider far more important:

the well-off want tax cuts
the religious are obsessed with stopping abortion
some fear / despise African Americans and want to keep them down
Many are furious at the loss of the American Dream and want it returned - but it was only ever a temporary advantage until the rival European powers rebuilt after being smashed by WW2

Many other voters furiously deny his faults, because they want what he will deliver ... or indeed regard racism and oppressing minorities as positive

Can I ask for opinions as to why the Democrats are in such a mess? People in the US particularly welcome to give views. 😁

Sorry to diverge from current discussion, but ....

Worrying study for anyone with a bald OH, or who is a balding bloke themself:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/bald-men-higher-risk-severe-case-covid-19-research-finds/

Bald men may be at higher risk of suffering from severe Covid-19 symptoms, emerging evidence suggests.
......
increasingly they believe it could be because androgens - male sex hormones like testosterone -
may play a part not only in hair loss, but also in boosting the ability of coronavirus to attack cells

Here’s Peter Osborne on the deliberate demonisation of Corbyn www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/killing-jeremy-corbyn

‘Oborne’ of course

Trump's Base:

reut.rs/2AJb7cQ

Of course if there is a civil war in the US, it's hard to imagine the UK would do anything but unerringly back the loser.

It was the first US civil war that pretty much put Britain in it's place in the world anyway. The North made it crystal clear that if Britain tried to break it's (very successful) blockade of the South, then the Union Navy would consider the Royal Navy fair game ... and despite the fact that the loss of cotton imports cost Britain dear ... we stayed away. The South had been counting on continuing to export (and thus raise much needed cash for the Confederate cause). But Britains lack of backbone put paid to that. (Is how it was seen, and probably still is).

What happened about the SCOTUS hearings on Trumps tax returns ? I thought we were supposed to have seen a resolution ?

Trump can send troops into states without being asked, if he invokes the Insurrection Act. Which effectively becomes a pivot point between the powers vested in the federal government and the powers vested in the state government. There's no UK analogue for that, so nothing people can compare with. Although generally the more republican/southern states are much more sceptical of federal government than the democratic/northern ones.

However, if there were to be a civil war, then not much has changed since the last one. The north has all the money and men, and the south is still pisspoor.

It does feel like there's an explosion brewing in the US. China must be sitting back and watching with great interest.

Michael Rosen has taken his first steps after becoming ill with Coronavirus. https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/06/michael-rosen-takes-first-steps-as-he-recovers-from-covid-19-coronavirus?CMP=sharebtnntw&twitterrimpression=true

Pontypridd
asked Seeing that the world can see so clearly how our government lies and manipulates the truth - how can we trust that the recent election was an honest one?
The UK electoral system is very very robust.
Voter fraud happens (particularly with postal voted) but in miniscule numbers and generally in local elections.

The issue is with advertising - and that is where the electoral systems worldwide are open to abuse.

I was discussing Trident with a colleague and I said it should be scrapped because the biggest threat to the UK at the moment is a bunch of hackers with a server farm outside Moscow
and submarines are not much use against that.
He agreed.

thecatfromjapan
Can I ask for opinions as to why the Democrats are in such a mess? People in the US particularly welcome to give views.
Identity politics
They fell into the trap of trying to identify with lots of little factions
and stopped representing the mainstream

The right loves Identity politics
as it causes the Left to turn on itself
and until the Left realises that they are being manipulated (excellent analyse of the issue on the FWR board)
they will remain weak.

PMK as ever many many thanks everyone

Singasonga
It does feel like there's an explosion brewing in the US. China must be sitting back and watching with great interest.
And concern.
The USA is currently China's biggest market.
China has a spectacular demographic crunch coming.
Xi gets away with his authoritarianism by keeping his people well fed and materially wealthier.
Both of those are threatened by what is happening in the US at the moment.
And by COVID and by Brexit and by Climate Change.
Any leader who sits back and gloats will not do so for long.
Yeah Johnson, that includes you

Of course if there is a civil war in the US, it's hard to imagine the UK would do anything but unerringly back the loser.

No. I think we'd back the winner.

The winner being the one with deepest pockets for arms, which we are one of the largest exporters for.

We might even back the winner and the loser.

We might even back the winner and the loser.
It worked for the Rothschilds

Quite Listening.

WwII was my historical reference point.

You probably see a tech company and Hollywood exodus as well as a senior executive banking exodus.

Where would they go?

Mitt Romney @mittromney
This is my father, George Romney, participating in a Civil Rights march in the Detroit suburbs during the late 1960s—“Force alone will not eliminate riots,” he said. “We must eliminate the problems from which they stem.”

Interesting...

Where would they go?
And that is where it gets really interesting

The whole if Corbyn gets in the rich will all leave
I always met with and go where ?

The Gulf ? not with oil prices where they are
Hong Kong ? not with Xi at the gate
Singapore ? not really
New York / London ? theoretically where people are running from

For the first time in their lives the Super Rich are going to have to stay and clear up their mess rather than moving on to the next bolt hole.

For the first time in their lives the Super Rich are going to have to stay and clear up their mess rather than moving on to the next bolt hole.

You are optimistic.

They will leave that to the plebs.

There's always places to go..... why do you think so many have bunkers in the South Island of NZ?

MrsL
why do you think so many have bunkers in the South Island of NZ?
And New Zealand has banned any more ....

Its not as if they can actually work there.

Its like investment returns ....
after asset stripping a country they sharks would move on to the next emerging market
but they have run out of countries now
so are having to deal with the countries they have already done business with
one of the reasons that stock market returns will stay low for the foreseeable even without pandemics

Then again the article I read about White Guys on the Moon was interesting .......

The excuses for leave voters do my nut. 'They weren't being listened to', 'the Daily Mail filled their heads with lies'. etc. It's bullshit. They voted leave because they wanted to and that's why there are very few who regret it.

My mum voted leave for a mix reasons. These include, in no particular order, to get rid of Cameron, the bedroom tax, sovereignty, too many black people in London (she's never been), and my personal favourite, Angela Merkel is a lizard person in human form.

She reguritated the Daily Mail but only because it told her what she wanted to hear. At one point going on about how Sweden was a failed a state and women weren't safe to walk in public anymore. This was clearly bullshit, she knew it was bullshit better than anyone seeing as she'd been in Sweden the week before. But the Daily Mail said it so it was true. End of.

She'd still vote leave now, despite having had no contact with her daughter or grandchildren since the referendum because of it. Holding on to her bitterness is more important to her than holding on to her family.