Westminstenders: A test of logistic planning

[RedToothBrush]

We are witnessing a demonstration in Government crisis management.

For the past week journalists have asked the same questions and politicians have said they've already done it / are doing it in the near future. But as time wears on, the inability to produce the answers or demonstrate results is proving illusive.

This will have consequences.

It is a demonstration in how planning has proved to be lacking in certain areas.

With Brexit in mind, the lack of vision, coordination with business and wider capability and capacity this does not bode well.

Seriously!? At this stage when 700-800 people a day are dying of this virus, who cares right now about what “easing the restrictions looks like?”

Clearly not you. But I care, and so do many others. Why can't we talk about it? There's no conflict in my view between telling people "stay at home" now, and discussing when, how, and why that will change in the future.

People need hope and information, not just being told to sit down and shut up, which is what it feels like you think is all the government should be doing. It comes across as a very authoritarian, do what I say and don't question it, point of view.

I read an article written by a psychologist (there has a lot of discussion about the MH issues this crisis will and has thrown up) - one of the key things she was saying, was not having an end point was incredibly hard for people.

So Louise from a mental health perspective - it would be hugely helpful to people to know what the goalposts are..... we need to see this (say deaths plateauing for a fortnight) and then this will happen..... because certain parts of the population believe it will be a couple of weeks, then it will be back to normal.....

And your comment re"get brexit done" - but he never ever defined what that meant did he ? And stuck to it..... get brexit done without definition , is a worthless statement as it meant something different to different people.

Re ; resilience..... it doesn't feed families does it? We are only a couple of weeks into what is going to be a long haul - let's talk about resilience in 6 weeks when people realise they won't have jobs to go back to.

People need hope and information, not just being told to sit down and shut up, which is what it feels like you think is all the government should be doing. It comes across as a very authoritarian, do what I say and don't question it, point of view.

It's an English trait - we're stuck with it. You know that triptych "Government of the people, by the people, for the people" ? The English only do the last one.

DGR post on page 39, I’m wondering if this will be picked up across MSM & discussed, it so sickening on what this government have been let of the hook with since this all started, I am really now starting to despair & just cannot begin to fathom out the sheer stupidity & downright neglectful behaviour that is being allowed.
Apologies for grammar, I’m very tired.

I utterly agree that a clear public strategy for ending lockdown will make it MUCH easier to enforce.

Once the rate of doubling drops to 12 days you can go out to the beach
Until then, every time you are a wazzock pushes that date further into the future

will make the job of the Police and the NHS and the shops MUCH easier.

Unfortunately for us we have a Dear Leader who made his entire Cabinet sign abit of paper to have the honour of serving under him.
Now that he is indisposed they are incapable of acting independently of him.
That's what happens when you stifle all dissent right from the beginning.

Link us to a few posts then, and we will judge for ourselves whether this is so or whether you are just on an anti Scotland/anti EU diatribe

You've been on these threads as long as I have so you will be aware of them. Not anti EU, I'm a passionate remainer, but get tired of you lot pissing over all things English.

I also think that this has completely exposed a govt who don't know how to communicate what they want - which is not good for Brexit in any shape or form, even if you support it. Unlike other countries we haven't started manufacturing PPE, stopped overseas sales of ventilators, kept our drugs companies on message re helping with testing. Our govt assumes all of the time. It assumed China would report perfect figures, despite being able to do this itself. It assumed people would listen to Bozo "asking" them to do the right thing. It assumed everyone has the same version of what distance is acceptable to exercise. It assumed the public would like herd immunity aka kill of the elderly because it assumed everyone saw them as a burden and it assumed Italy's population had the same risk critereon as our own - they didn't factor in obesity. In short, they are asses.

The public have started making masks and commandeering schools/colleges DT equipment for visors, the public have supported NHS by clapping - the govt did not make this happen. It is not leading from the front.

I also agree that The Public would be more likely to stick to guidelines if they felt the Govt had a clear plan and rationale for why they are imposed and roughly when they can be relaxed.
Just telling us: 'oh, only 3 weeks, then Boris will look at it again, oh, he's in hospital, so we'll look at it again next week when hopefully he's out as he sitting up now, he's a fighter...' is treating us like children.
And that doesn't help compliance

I am not aware of threads especially bashing the English, or praising the Scots or the EU. Nor am I aware of pissing over all things English. What would make me do that, as an English person myself?

I am prepared to criticise our politicians, and since we have had Tory Governments for the last 5 years, and a Tory led one for the previous five then yes, Tory party politicians will get more criticism.

I didn’t say the government shouldn’t plan. I suggested their plans shouldn’t be public at this stage until the peak has passed and the central “stay at home” message has full effect

I finding that listening to the output of the devolved nations far more informative than that from the UK government. For instance in school closures, Sturgeon said from the outset not to expect them to reopen before year end. So while it's possible they may reopen in May, I'm not expecting schools to open before June (given the difference in Scottish school timetabling). Both the Welsh and Scottish governments have also said lockdown won't be ended after Easter, UK government are yet to even point in that direction despite giving all the nods towards the same. NI have also been a lot more open with things. The UK government have long had an issue with communication in this regard.

I think the UK government are still trying nudge theory. So all the talks of potential green shoots are meant to be a softener to the measures are taking an effect so will need to be kept on. They've misplayed it though so rather than the nudge, it's been a full on shove where people think it'll be over really soon.

Quite surprised there's not been more comment over Emily Maitliss statement last night ...

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/newsnight-viewers-praise-emily-maitlis-18066734

or is it more likely I wasn't looking

digressing I got 1Kg plain flour at the corner shop ... looks like I'll be kneading a bit more for pizza dough.

I suggested their plans shouldn’t be public at this stage until the peak has passed

It doesn’t have to be “secret” as such

So, not public, but not secret. I give up.

“at this stage” 😔

"you lot pissing over all things English"

Only criticising the mistakes by the government
The British people deserve so much better

In fact, we are pretty indignant at the idea that Brits can't cope with e.g. knowing the target for starting to ease restrictions

The culture of secrecy in British govt is at the extreme end for democracies
So is centralisation of power

The govt do not trust the people

The criticism here is all about govt processes and the misrule that Brits have to suffer,
even maybe more deaths than need have been

I can accept mistakes made by govt trying to do its best:
I'm sure all govts at the moment have made them, e.g. almost all were too slow to realise the seriousness of the crisis

What is particularly egregious about the British govt is that they made bad decisions due to ideology and cronyism
in addition to the inevitable mistakes that other govts made

e.g. refusing invitations to 8 (video) meetings of EEA heads or govt or health ministers,

giving ventilator orders to Leave / Tory supporters instead of taking up earlier offers sourced by UK firms or joining the EU initiatives

ignoring the recommendations to test, test and test again - so never bothering to organise labs and the pharma / chemi industries to support such a program.

I think the UK government are still trying nudge theory.

Well if it's all you've got, you have to I guess. You can't do what you're not capable of. I imagine there are some in the world that might raise their eyebrows at the UKs lack of strategy. I imagine there are others that are less surprised than some here seem. All part of the game I guess. Just a shame the players have families and no choice though.

"I didn’t say the government shouldn’t plan. I suggested their plans shouldn’t be public at this stage until the peak has passed and the central “stay at home” message has full effect"

Merkel told us here (Germany) from the beginning as much planning as she could make, explained decisions and timing could be updated as the situation developed.
Told us that the cases target was doubling at X days, explained about R0

Brits are just as capable as Germans of keeping "stay home" in their heads, while also knowing the targets ahead - in fact it helps

Successive UK governments have had such a low opinion of the British public,
such a lack of trust

• which of course then goes both ways

I suggested their plans shouldn’t be public at this stage until the peak has passed and the central “stay at home” message has full effect.

Why not? We would at least know that they had a plan. At the moment, judging by what we have seen when it came to tackling the corona virus, they have been running around like headless chickens, so how would we know that they won't in future?

There must be an awful lot of business who wonder if they will be able to start up again but know that they have sufficient reserves for some weeks, but don't know what they will do after that. So if you were on the point of winding up, but knew it would only last say two weeks, you might think OK, I can ride that out. 2 months, I can't, so I will close now.

e.g. refusing invitations to 8 (video) meetings of EEA heads or govt or health ministers,

Then trying to fudge - we're not in the EU and we can get equipment elsewhere, and then blatantly lying - we didn't see the emails.

I can accept mistakes made by govt trying to do its best:

There are suppliers that I still use, despite the odd cock up because they handled them well.

By the same token, there are (more were) suppliers that I will never use (or recommend for use) because their first response was not "how do we fix this ?" but "How do we get out of this ?"

It's why I still use Amazon after 23 years. They have been stellar at correcting problems.

It's why I haven't used eBuyer for 10 years - because their very first reply to a problem was a bald faced lie.

Contrary to the impression I give here, I'm not an idiot. Things go wrong. I get it. The trick is in what happens next.

Seriously!? At this stage when 700-800 people a day are dying of this virus, who cares right now about what “easing the restrictions looks like?”

I do, very much.
Our income has ceased, our plans are in disarray. We need to know how long our personal contingency needs to last us as that hugely affects what plans we make. Right now, we're in limbo and its hugely stressful.

I am not a child, I don't appreciate being treated like one.

Incidentally, anyone who wants to believe the government are doing any sort of job at all - even badly - should read a barristers take on the emergency legislation rushed through last month. To call it shit would be an insult to shit. This is not the work of a remotely competent government. It's the half-arsed late night crammer of a bunch of people who clearly don't see governing as their job. Which begs teh question why the fuck did they want to be elected ?

I can see an awful lot of lawsuits after this. We might end up spending more in compensation than furloughs ...

barristerblogger.com/2020/04/07/lessons-for-open-justice-from-the-marie-dinou-case/

I particularly liked this comment - bearing in mind this is a barrister making a comment on law. Something they're rumoured to know a thing or two about ...

Goodness only knows what lawful procedure this DJ thought she was following, but it was not dignified by even vestigial shreds of fairness. District Judges of course can make mistakes, and no doubt this one was working under great pressure. Even so, it is concerning, to put it politely, that the judge thought she could entirely ignore so many principles of natural justice in a criminal case. One could put it less politely: to dignify this farrago as a kangaroo court would be unfair to marsupial jurisprudence.