Westminstenders: A test of logistic planning

[RedToothBrush]

We are witnessing a demonstration in Government crisis management.

For the past week journalists have asked the same questions and politicians have said they've already done it / are doing it in the near future. But as time wears on, the inability to produce the answers or demonstrate results is proving illusive.

This will have consequences.

It is a demonstration in how planning has proved to be lacking in certain areas.

With Brexit in mind, the lack of vision, coordination with business and wider capability and capacity this does not bode well.

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/03/21/commentary/japan-commentary/japan-still-coronavirus-outlier/#.Xo8CHCXTWEc

And a nice graphic showing the coincidental and completely unrelated rise in cases after the Olympic postponement was announced

[Peregrina]

We were perfectly happy to criticise the Scottish Chief Medical Officer for breaking the lockdown twice, and saying that she should resign. To be fair to her, she did, she didn't try to lie her way out of it.

[RedToothBrush]

and the English are shit but the rest of Europe - especially Germany and Scotland- are wonderful.

I seem to remember either Witty or Hancock (or both) saying there are lessons to be learned from Germany on how they are coping better with the outbreak and able to do more tests.

I'm not sure I've said a single thing about Scotland apart from to say the chief medical officer was a dick who should go though possibly after the crisis and be critical of our governments inability to keep their promises about expanding testing which was poor. I've probably mentioned Germany in that context but given the government are admitting there is reason to be critical in this area, I'm not terribly sure I'm bashing anyones nationalism for saying that.

I have pointed out that the EU has been perceived to have not being doing enough for Italy and that there was a lack of unity over PPE and equipment sharing which had led to resentment, particularly towards Germany. And I've linked to a ft article about how coronavirus is testing EU relationships (Italy and the coronabonds issue).

But there you go...

[BirdandSparrow]

I live in Spain and there has been some talk of the UBI but it is by no means being implemented. It has been discussed but there are no clear plans and no date for it at the moment.

[LouiseCollins28]

Clearly an “exit strategy” is needed. However media questioning appears, to me anyway, to be insisting that said strategy should be public knowledge now. IMO, in reality the only message people need ahead of the Easter weekend is “Stay At Home”

[TheMShip]

However media questioning appears, to me anyway, to be insisting that said strategy should be public knowledge now.

Why should it be kept secret?

[SwedishEdith]

In real life people are adapting to home working (where possible), braving the tube if they have to go to work, helping their children with their school work, patiently queuing outside shops, following the arrows in supermarkets, skyping their families, helping strangers, avoiding parks and beaches.


Coronavirus: Greater Manchester Police warning after 660 parties shut down last weekend.

[KonTikki]

Utterly Perfect
Ooh you are a cynic

[DGRossetti]

Successive UK governments seem to have had an intractable problem with communication. Specifically telling the world what the fuck they are up to. The Covid cockups aren't anything to do with the unprecedented nature of the situation, and everything to do with the view of the UK government that the UK population - and by extension world as a whole - are best treated like mushrooms.

If we start with covid and work backwards, it was the same with Brexit. Then with Syria. Then Afghanistan. Then Iraq.

I'm not so decrepit that I've forgotten the cries of UK businesses for clarity over Brexit - which was never forthcoming ...

POTUS has 50 states with 50 governors to do his heavy lifting and give the illusion of competency. However the UKs ridiculously centralised government has no such luxury - and where it does in Scotland (for example) it chooses to piss on it rather than leverage it.

[LouiseCollins28]

It doesn’t have to be “secret” as such but I partly answered that question TheMShip I think Govt should be focused on one message until Covid peak has passed, the “Stay at Home” message.

[DGRossetti]

It doesn’t have to be “secret” as such

Everything the government does is by definition "a secret". That's not hyperbole, it's truth.

One thing the US has got right - or at least tried - is the rather touching belief that if the public pay for something, the public have a right to that. And that means government. So by default the outputs of all federal agencies are as public as practically possible. And as a massive nerd, the lifetimes of data from NASA alone make that incredible.

Meanwhile, back in blighty, not only does the government charge you to collect your data. It then sells that data back to you at a premium.

[ClashCityRocker]

I suspect the lack of info on the exit plan is due them not having one.

This isn't hugely negative; or shouldn't be, if the government looks at what works in other countries who locked down earlier.

It's whether they will do that.

Happy to report that I haven't really seen anyone not taking social distancing seriously really. And have seen many examples of kindness and dare I say, community spirit.

[HesterThrale]

Not sure Patel’s doing her job. Where is she?

Andy Brown
@VoteAndyBrown
Flight IB3166 from Madrid has just landed at Heathrow - the passengers will shortly be walking out of the airport without any meaningful checks and travelling across the UK. Heathrow says it is following government guidelines. We must therefore blame the government.

mobile.twitter.com/VoteAndyBrown/status/1247931856684830721

[UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe]

KonTikki

[LouiseCollins28]

You’ve lost me there DGR.

Some examples, had the government not been explicit in its communications about the Iraq war, then Parliament wouldn’t have voted for it, Blair, “45 minutes” etc. The government wasn’t unclear, they lied, but they weren’t unclear.

Syria: Cameron having lost the Syria vote: “I get that and the government will act accordingly”. Best peice of communication I can remember from any government for decades.

May on Brexit i’ll give you was a very poor communicator in some ways.

Boris on Brexit, again couldn’t have been clearer, “Get Brexit Done” again this was economical with the truth since voting for him wouldn’t directly do that, but it wasn’t lacking clarity.

[TheMShip]

I disagree. Evidence shows that the more informed the population is, the more willing they will be to cooperate. People do not do well with uncertainty and undefined end points. For example, and I am only choosing this because it's the first thing that comes to mind, not because I idolize Frau Merkel , Germany saying that they will look to ease lockdown when the new case rate doubling meets a certain level.

How do we know when to relax restrictions? What would easing restrictions look like? What would go first, what measures would remain? These are all conversations that should be happening publicly. We've seen that restricting the group of advisers to only those chosen by the government isn't always a good idea. There's been loads of great contributions from people outside that, sometimes leading to changes, even reversals of policy.

I'm a scientist, biomedical, and I'm working on one of the COVID research projects. My community has been brilliant at sharing data and methods since the start of the outbreak, and constantly communicating with each other and revising our hypotheses. Policy should do the same.

[LouiseCollins28]

Seriously!? At this stage when 700-800 people a day are dying of this virus, who cares right now about what “easing the restrictions looks like?”

Policy should be clear and there should be one message at a time. Even though there is, too many people are still not following it.

[ICouldHaveBeenAContender]

Sturgeon held a virtual FMQ today.

[Piggywaspushed]

But the government muddies its own stay at home messages, partly with its huge list of 'essential' workers and by constantly redefining what they mean by exercise, where you can do it,, how far away, who with etc etc.

I am sure the 'can I?' threads on MN are sometimes faked but some of them are genuinely confused people.

[ICouldHaveBeenAContender]

Louise if there is no planning, there will be chaos. Again. And a surge in deaths. Fail to plan = plan to fail.

[DGRossetti]

From elsewhere - sorry I can't find a cite ...

Beeb news interviewed the director of a lab currently doing HIV and cancer tests, which he is trying to prepare to do covid tests. He is having trouble getting a bank loan for the test chemicals. Thirty other labs are also prepared to start doing tests, but only because this man had contacted them, the government has offered no support or leadership up to now. These labs were there at the start of all this and the government still isn't making use of them. How blatant does the tests scandal have to get before the government gets called out for it?

[ListeningQuietly]

For work reasons I drove a long a piece of seaside coastline today.
ROWS of caravans parked up and people chilling on the beach.
Even the vehicles were not 2m apart

The motorway was lovely though - cruise control came into its own

[JeSuisPoulet]

I think the group than really boggles me is construction workers being made to keep working. Roads I get. Anything concerning public safety, fine. Building a new shopping center...nope. I bet you that a lot of the people flouting the 2 meter rules, going to big parties etc are people who are already in jobs where they can't social distance.

[JeSuisPoulet]

And the Japan study would be interesting (if it weren't for the Olympics hmm]) as it suggests school closures had a very big impact on stalling this. Unlike Imperial Eugenics et al's study.

[pointythings]

Louise three word slogans do not equate to clear communication! They may win elections, but they do not help businesses prepare their systems for No Deal Brexit.

Equally 'Stay At Home' is useful advice, but that slogan does not prepare anyone for what happens after it is no longer universal. Which services will restart? Which groups will be expected to go back to work? For how long will the financial support last? What are the plans to mitigate the hit to the economy?

These are all questions that require answers. Germany's clearly communicated criterion for lockdown ending - case doubling at below 14 days - is clear and concrete. So far all we have had is waffle and sloganeering.