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Brexit

Westminstenders: A test of logistic planning

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2020 15:32

We are witnessing a demonstration in Government crisis management.

For the past week journalists have asked the same questions and politicians have said they've already done it / are doing it in the near future. But as time wears on, the inability to produce the answers or demonstrate results is proving illusive.

This will have consequences.

It is a demonstration in how planning has proved to be lacking in certain areas.

With Brexit in mind, the lack of vision, coordination with business and wider capability and capacity this does not bode well.

OP posts:
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MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 09/04/2020 08:33

There are rumours that COVID19 is unwell, having caught a dose of Priti Patel.

DoctorTwo · 09/04/2020 09:08

As an aside from COVID but linked, what do people think of Universal Basic Income

If you've heard of Prof. Steve Keen and seen him interviewed on the subject I'm pretty (not Priti) sure you could be convinced it's a valid idea economically. For a start it's cheaper than what we're doing now.

ClashCityRocker · 09/04/2020 09:36

mistigri I'm not sure that's happening here. We're certainly not a hot-spot, but speaking to a lung cancer administrator they've said that it will cause an awful lot of non-covid deaths as treatments are being pushed back, deadlines have been scrapped etc.

Dh has had his endescopy and various scans cancelled, which is hugely worrying. Referrals were marked as 'urgent' so it's not like they're just monitoring.

DM has also had various healthxare appointments cancelled, but hers are routine and more about managing her condition.

It certainly does feel that the NHS is for Covid-19 only at the minute round here. It's understandable given the current circumstances but I'm not sure how much comfort that will be if six months down the line when Dh can finally get some diagnostics done it transpires that he does have something sinister going on. I'm hoping beyond hope anything really awful would show on blood tests/stool samples.

TheElementsOfMedical · 09/04/2020 09:47

There are rumours that COVID19 is unwell, having caught a dose of Priti Patel.

GrinGrinGrin

DH was just saying this weekend, "Haven't heard anything from Priti for weeks... I want to know what They've done with her... so they can do it permanently Grin"

GhostofFrankGrimes · 09/04/2020 09:52

I look forward to seeing a country supposedly shit scared of Marxist rail nationalisation just 5 months ago wholeheartedly embracing universal income now.

OldLace · 09/04/2020 10:20

It's interesting that the (media claim) the Govt current party line is to fudge announcing the extension of lock down until Boris is better'?

I wonder if they are secretly hoping enough idiots will break lockdown this bank holiday weekend, & be splashed over the redtops, so that they can impose a tighter lockdown next week?
It would be good timing re the cases continuing towards peaking, and they could 'blame the public' (partly correct but much more blame lies at their feet imo) with impunity then?
(Maybe I am a cynic as I also wonder if the current fairly loose lockdown has been a subtler version of 'herd immunity'?)

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2020 10:38

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the EU/EEA and the UK – eighth update (8 April)

Warning us not to relax measures prematurely

ECDC (European Center for Disease Protection and Control) still include UK in their assessments

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/covid-19-rapid-risk-assessment-coronavirus-disease-2019-eighth-update-8-april-2020.pdf

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2020 10:44

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

Stunning economic figures from the Eurozone’s two biggest economies.

🇩🇪 GDP projected to shrink by 10% in the three months to June (biggest fall since national accounts began in 1970)- double that of 2008

Banque de France says
🇫🇷 GDP to shrink by 6% in Q1 (🇫🇷 biggest since WW2)

Banque de France says for every week of lockdown in March, French business activity fell by a third.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2020 10:45

Last forecast I saw for UK GDP was a 5% fall

BigChocFrenzy · 09/04/2020 10:46

TYPO 15% fall for UK GDP

LouiseCollins28 · 09/04/2020 10:47

No surprise to see the “don’t relax prematurely” type tone. Makes good sense IMO and is exactly the line Raab took on Tuesday.

Wondering why so many of the media questions are about “exit strategy” from lockdown given this? That doesn’t seem to be very responsible to me.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 09/04/2020 10:49

Wondering why so many of the media questions are about “exit strategy” from lockdown given this? That doesn’t seem to be very responsible to me.

Media and responsbility aren't two words I often put together.

DGRossetti · 09/04/2020 10:58

Wasn't a key plank of Brexiteer bullishness that we'd just do a deal with China ?

www.wsj.com/articles/britain-falls-out-of-love-with-china-11585955421

Britain Falls Out of Love With China Enthusiasm for post-Brexit trade wanes as the viral toll grows.

By The Editorial Board, 4/3/20, Wall St. Journal

What a difference two months make. U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson in late January riled many Britons and Washington by allowing Chinese telecom firm Huawei to supply parts for British communications networks. Nine weeks and one global pandemic later, that deal and many others are in doubt.

British anger at Beijing’s deceitful handling of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan has bubbled up in recent days. Senior minister Michael Gove on Sunday blamed Beijing for stymieing Britain’s response to the pandemic: “Some of the reporting from China was not clear about the scale, the nature, the infectiousness of this.”

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab on Monday called for a “lessons learned” review in answer to a reporter’s question about Chinese obstructionism. These public statements reinforce press reports over the weekend that government officials privately suggest China should face a “reckoning” after the health emergency has abated.

Skeptical voices are rising outside the administration, too. Iain Duncan Smith, a member of Parliament and former Conservative Party leader, cited Beijing’s coronavirus cover-up as the final straw that should prompt Britain to “rethink” its relationship with China. That argument won’t be a hard sell to many Conservatives. Mr. Johnson faced a rebellion by 38 of his own party members in Parliament who recently voted against his plan to allow Huawei to sell equipment to Britain.

That deal was supposed to advance the warmer economic ties with China that were a central plank of Mr. Johnson’s post-Brexit trade agenda. Beijing’s dangerous virus cover-up could scupper those plans by forcing British leaders to question whether an authoritarian China is a trustworthy economic partner.

There’s a lesson for both sides. Britons who voted for Brexit backed a vision of their country as a democratic, free-trading beacon for the rest of the world. There are dangers to deviating from that path solely for the sake of commercial gain.

As for Beijing, the repression of the Xi Jinping era is not winning China respect abroad. Instead, that repression and its sour fruits—whether Uighur detention camps or a clumsy attempt to diminish or conceal the risks of what has become a global pandemic—are cultivating global distrust of the Communist Party. The price that the regime pays in lost respect and economic opportunities may be large and unpredictable.

JeSuisPoulet · 09/04/2020 11:12

DGR it certainly was. As I pointed out to a petition signer of the wet market variety the other week, they don't want regulations and apparently neither do we. If you still want your phone and shoes at an affordable cost, something has to give. She was a Leave voter too. They seem to be the ones most outraged by China IME.

Peregrina · 09/04/2020 11:17

Will we see a piece about how we can't rely on the US, or will it be whatever the US wants is what we get i.e. Business as Usual.

LaureBerthaud · 09/04/2020 11:44

@midwesteaster I actually think that UK citizens seem to be displaying less resilience than I would have expected.
There are endless threads on here about how people couldn't possibly cope without the parks being open, older people can't possibly manage without a daily trip to the shops and the Guardian is full is similar articles along with complaints about heavy handed policing

But they are just threads on a forum and articles in newspapers. In real life people are adapting to home working (where possible), braving the tube if they have to go to work, helping their children with their school work, patiently queuing outside shops, following the arrows in supermarkets, skyping their families, helping strangers, avoiding parks and beaches. No rioting, not a lot of real life complainers but a great deal of good humour and resilience.

However, as always on the Westminstenders threads, England and the English are shit but the rest of Europe - especially Germany and Scotland- are wonderful.

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 09/04/2020 11:47

The bloody brass neck on Gove and Raab Hmm The Chinese government did have huge failings with the way they dealt with this (unlike the Chinese medics who dealt with it amazingly) but at least they reported it to the WHO at the end of December (I think?). The government then had the figures from China, Iran and Italy to work with, and while there was doubt about the exact numbers, it was clear that this was heading to be a pandemic. UK government advice? “Wash your hands.” Didn’t prepare PPE. Didn’t shut down large events. Will there be a reckoning against the UK government by the UK government for their failings?

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 09/04/2020 11:56

Louise and Frank - re exit strategy. A strategy is required. Planning how to exit is required. A multi-agency (Cobra+) group needs to be considering options for easing lockdown. UK failed to plan how to deal with CV. Let's not make the same mistake twice!

Peregrina · 09/04/2020 12:00

However, as always on the Westminstenders threads, England and the English are shit but the rest of Europe - especially Germany and Scotland- are wonderful.

Link us to a few posts then, and we will judge for ourselves whether this is so or whether you are just on an anti Scotland/anti EU diatribe.

AuldAlliance · 09/04/2020 12:04

On UBI:

LaureBerthaud
I'm curious about the idea that there is a difference between what people say on MN and what they do in real life. Do you think MNers are lying about their desire to go to the park/ walk their dog miles from home/ go to visit their family for Easter, etc.?
Why would they lie to make themselves look less resilient and good-humoured?
Or are they bots?

The international media haven't been discussing Scotland much, because devolved issues are not sth they follow very closely other than at key moments, because Sturgeon's hands are tied on handling CV as strategy is centralised, and because the focus has mainly been, on the UK gvmt's unusual herd immunity strategy, its U-turns and then on BJ being in ICU.
But these threads are hardly the only place where people have been noting that Germany's CV policy seems to have been extremely successful thus far and admiring its healthcare system.

Piggywaspushed · 09/04/2020 12:06

Well, I'm sorry, but Scotland's decision to close construction sites is a better decision than Westminster's. I sit here watching and listening to now 50 plus builders et al crawling all over a small residential shopping parade site. It is not , polluting and unsafe. There right there is a public health hazard in waiting : more likely already nicely brewed.

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 09/04/2020 12:12

News from Japan via the in-laws. Japan has had a miraculously low number of cases considering their proximity to China and huge amounts of trade and tourism between the two countries. However, since the olympics have been postponed, cases have been creeping up. These two things are in no way related. Is that clear? Wink

They’ve only just declared a state of emergency, with 5000 cases and around 100 deaths. There’s a partial lockdown in place in some areas, and people are being told to work from home where they can (previously unthinkable.) but workers like MIL who works in retail are having to carry on. It’s not an essential service, but it’s not being closed down, leaving her at risk.

Now either they’ve covered up an awful lot of cases and deaths - and surely we would have seen some whistleblowers if this were the case - or they have genuinely avoided it somehow. Wearing masks is incredibly common, but that wouldn’t stop the other rates of transmission. They also closed schools early or extended the break before the new school year starts back in February/March which should have cut off another means of transmission.

I’ll post an article which has some better insight than mine!

Piggywaspushed · 09/04/2020 12:13

Sorry, that not makes no sense and should say noisy !!