Westminstenders: A test of logistic planning

[RedToothBrush]

We are witnessing a demonstration in Government crisis management.

For the past week journalists have asked the same questions and politicians have said they've already done it / are doing it in the near future. But as time wears on, the inability to produce the answers or demonstrate results is proving illusive.

This will have consequences.

It is a demonstration in how planning has proved to be lacking in certain areas.

With Brexit in mind, the lack of vision, coordination with business and wider capability and capacity this does not bode well.

Mockers - that illustrates what I was saying, so in the end we just don't know what to believe.

Piggy I have read nowhere that if you still have symptoms after a week, you should be concerned and seek further help...

The whole '7 day self-isolation' message created an impression that if you get the virus, you will be well again in a week. Some folks might want to read more, but probably the vast majority wouldn't and why would they? We're supposed to look to our government for advice. Yet symptoms often persist much longer and as a pp said, often there's a deterioration around day 10/11. Maybe that message was thought too complicated for us.

This particular government has an unwavering evangelistic faith in 3 word messaging being the answer. Reflected in their perceived need to bring back Levido. This has done us all a huge disservice and, for some, active harm.

Red - I think so regarding the gender difference, also:
Men don't was their hands as frequently as women on average
Men take more risks with their health - don't know of underlying conditions perhaps - also more likely to flout social distancing. Then add psychological distress (evident from high suicides) which affects immunity. More likely to be obese, smoke, drink, have a poor diet and be inactive = poorly educated lower SE white men are at the bottom of the UK health pile.

FWIW I would rather it got Cummings, if I had to pick. I have a complete loathing for that little toad. It would be quite interesting to see Bozo lead without his little devil on the shoulder.

The death disparity male / female holds within all age groups, ethnicities and cultures.

It's also not just COVID - women generally may have a more effective immune system, which some scientists increasingly think may be related to the XX chromosone that women have

Riskier habits would play some part, but it looks like biology does too

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/men-are-much-more-likely-to-die-from-coronavirus-but-why

there is a growing belief among experts that more fundamental biological factors are also at play .

“The growing observation of increased mortality in men is holding true across China, Italy, Spain.
We’re seeing this across very diverse countries and cultures,”

Previous research, including by Klein, has revealed that men have lower innate antiviral immune responses to a range of infections including hepatitis C and HIV.

“Their immune system may not initiate an appropriate response when it initially sees the virus,”

many genes that regulate the immune system are encoded on the X chromosome
(of which men have one, and women have two)

and so it is possible that some genes involved in the immune response are more active in women than in men.

There might even need to be some apologies about manflu and the Dressing Gown of Doom

• some men do play up their illnesses, but it may be that they genuinely suffer worse with viruses than we do.

Yes, it'll be Gove running things behind the scenes. The Prince of Darkness who never had a question that he couldn't smugly and smilingly evade. The nightmare only gets worse.

Boris Johnson will stay in hospital for ‘as long as he needs to’, Robert Jenrick says

Is this the same Jenrick that lost 4,000 ventilators in less than an hour ? I think he can safely be ignored forever more. I'd rather read sheep entrails - they'd have more credibility.

From reports, it seems that one of the mechanisms this virus seems to take is that patients appear to recover before being overwhelmed by some sort of relapse or secondary phase of the disease. It's one reason why I don't think the "certificate of immunity" (which doesn't exist anyway) may not work. (Quite apart from the incentives for forgery).

If I had any belief that this government was capable of such thinking, I would wonder if the Boris->hospital story was dreamt up to reinforce the governments advice (well, some of it) in a dramatic fashion. But I don't, so it seems Boris must be ill. Although I repeat my scepticism in a man who has been proven to lie in every aspect of his life thus far.

and before we start slagging off Muslims, four of the first five medics to die were Muslims.

Certainly not sagging them off. A Labour MP in Birmingham raised the issue as there being a problem communicating with that section of his constituents and within the city as a whole.

He (and I) were speaking out of concern for cultural barriers / health inequality rather than being critical of behaviour.

tbh, I'd prefer Gove and PM to either BJ or Roid Raab
(naturally as a human being I hope BJ recovers)

Gove ^^ is far more competent and intelligent than either and more experienced in actually running things,
all of which matters in a crisis dealing with very complex and rapidly changing factors

More data. More to puzzle over. And certainly more - not less - to worry over. I repeat what I said ages ago. There's something odd about C-19.

www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/tiger-at-bronx-zoo-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/2360876/

A 4-year-old Malayan tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for COVID-19, the zoo announced Sunday. It is the first instance of a tiger testing positive for the virus, the USDA said.

Nadia, the COVID-19 positive tiger, was exposed by an asymptomatic worker, the zoo said. The zoo says "appropriate preventative measures" have been implemented to care for the cats and minimize further exposure.

According to the Wildlife Conservation Society, six other large cats are also showing symptoms. The test was conducted in Iowa by the USDA's National Veterinary Services Laboratory

Five doctors live in my street. Three are off sick.
We have colleagues on ventilators

I could not agree more. If dear old Queenie had wanted to impress me last night, she should have just announced it.

I am fine and still working
The other doctor still working is married to a sick doctor and is staying in a hotel. She has the kids on her own

I read that the
R4 Start the Week: The Gender Gap discussed how the XX chromosone may be an advantage for immunity
That's still available for Uk residents

It is the first instance of a tiger testing positive for the virus, the USDA said

How many tigers have they tested?

DGR there are a lot of reports about cats with COVID and how they pass it on to each other, at least. Therein the links to tigers? Nothing about dogs to date.

Yes BCF - I think epigenetics will be needed to unravel this too. I mentioned last week about the oestrogen and protective factors of being a mother on top...lots of interesting science to come from this.

BCF I'm afraid that I can't agree with you on that one. Yes, I agree that Gove is more intelligent. That just makes him more frightening. In terms of fatal character flaws, I'd rather have Johnson's desire to be loved than Gove's utter ruthlessness. Johnson was, at best, ambivalent about Brexit but willing to go along as it delivered him the PM. Gove fervently desires the hardest of hard Brexit's.

The sudden hope for "immunity certificates" seems to have come from journos misunderstanding a report in Germany,
where the plan is to:

1. put immune clinical staff on the frontline and remove those who are not yet immune
2. assess some patients at high risk who are currently undergoing the equivalent of "shielding"

It was never intended to be part of the dystopian future I've seen suggested elsewhere on MN, where those with immunity certificates can work and play freely outside, whilst the rest stay in lockdown

Even Germany, testing up to 100,000 per day, would take so long to get through the whole 80 million population that the vaccine would probably arrive first

and the issue of forgery is obvious.

Not just Gove who's really in charge but also Lady McGove in the background to stick a rod up his arse to give him a vertebrate backbone in his cephalopod frame.

discussed how the XX chromosone may be an advantage for immunity

It's already known there's a genetic dimension to immunity. Because there is a genetic dimension to everything. The current perceived wisdom (as perceived by DB who is working in it) is that in the future all treatments will be based on a patients genome. It's already explaining why a drug that one patient responds to has no effect on another.

It's one of those frustrating areas where the science is basically catching up with beliefs of 400 years ago. When I first met DW, she was already aware that everyones MS is different - which we now know to be an expression of fact rather than sentiment.

Returning to the Boris story, it seems that he will be the poster boy for bullying bosses everywhere.

If the Prime Minister can work from hospital, you can damn well come into work, unless you like letters and numbers in the post ...

it's a feature of health inequality that those who are informed and educated get better health care. It's not unique to Covid-19.

I know that, of course red (as I teach about health inequality!) : what I was saying was that the info wasn't actually there for anyone : not even the well read and well informed. It really feels like all the information and even medical guidance is made on the hoof. PP had it right about the triple soundbite effect. It doesn't have enough detail.

Btw, there was a news item about a few dogs in Hong Kong testing positive for CV-19...

www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-dog-spread-humans-1.5487621

The sudden hope for "immunity certificates" seems to have come from journos misunderstanding a report in Germany

I don't think there was any misunderstanding at all. It's a cynical attempt to whip up a "backlash in Britain" of people clamouring for such things to they can go to work and prop up the crumbling fortunes of the hyper-rich. It will feed directly into the threads on MN (and elsewhere) flaring up with tiresome regularity pushing the agenda that lockdown should end as it's only meant to protect the old and who needs them anyway ?