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Brexit
Original poster

Is the EU falling apart...?

383 replies

Frownette · 05/02/2020 16:54

My mother seems to be convinced it is. She hasn't given a compelling reason.

And someone at the Halifax told her that it was!

OP posts:
MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 21:33

Did you really ask sixteen million people what they believe

No. Nor did I claim to have done so.

malylis · 09/02/2020 21:34

Of course its called democracy to conpare what people campaigned on to what they do when they win. Otherwise how do you ever hold the winner of an election to account.

Honda aren't a democratic organisation, this Honda point you keep making really isn't the great argument you think it is.

You also seem to be confused about losers consent, it doesn't mean that the losers have to shut up until something has been delivered nor does it give the winners are free pass to do as they wish.

Even then, when applied to the referendum which was not binding, it applies even less

It is rather amusing that you think that though

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 21:40

it doesn't mean that the losers have to shut up

Until there is another referendum or an election I think it means exactly that. Vote by action and tick the box on the ballot paper you like best.

Even then, when applied to the referendum which was not binding, it applies even less

If referendum not binding why is Brexit now passed in law in both the EU and the UK?

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 21:42

Otherwise how do you ever hold the winner of an election to account

Easy. Vote against them the next time.

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2020 21:45

it doesn't mean that the losers have to shut up
Until there is another referendum or an election I think it means exactly that. Vote by action and tick the box on the ballot paper you like best.
ODFOD
The Brexiters never shut up between 1973 and 2016
you are clearly scared of democracy if you associate it with silencing debate

and you'd still not justifed Zac Goldmith being in government
after he was VOTED OUT

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 21:48

The Brexiters never shut up between 1973 and 2016

I don’t remember hearing the word Brexit from 1973 onwards.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 21:49

and you'd still not justifed Zac Goldmith being in government

That’s a question for government to answer.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:01

Your understanding of how democracy works is very flawed.

Not surprising.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:03

"i don't remember hearing the word brexit."

Disingenuous, leaving the EU was debated by certain politicians and other groups from 1975 onward.

PigletJohn · 09/02/2020 22:04

Mystery

"Nor did I claim to have done so."

But you claim to know what they believe.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:05

" If the referendum is not binding" laws can be repealed, the government was not legally required to implement the result.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:06

Your understanding of how democracy works is very flawed

How?

Freedom for people to vote how they chose

Add up the votes and majority vote is implemented

If people think they were misled previously they can change their minds next time.

Sounds fair to me

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:09

But you claim to know what they believe

No I don’t. View was that some of the remain voters might mushroom been swayed by the prediction of between 500,000 and 800,000 job losses.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:11

the government was not legally required to implement the result

So why did they? 498 MPs voted to invoke Article 50.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:15

So why did they? Their choice in a representative democracy, but they didn't have to.

Your understanding of democracy is flawed because of the misunderstandings you have for losers consent.

The Vote going one way doesn't stop debate, critique, challenge or dissent which can be applied at any time.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:17

The Vote going one way doesn't stop debate, critique, challenge or dissent which can be applied at any time

Its called voting differently the next time.

PigletJohn · 09/02/2020 22:21

Mystery

You claimed to knowe what 16 million remain voters believe

"Remain supporters will never answer your question as they think Brexit should be cancelled "

You now say you didn't ask them what they believe. So you were making it up.

I can see why you now want to deny pretending to know what they believe.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:23

So why did they? Their choice in a representative democracy, but they didn't have to

Cameron stated the result would be honoured because he was convinced it would be an easy victory for remain (arrogance). He also stated it was a once in a lifetime vote.

Considering there was a 41 year gap between the referendum of 1975 and 2016 it makes sense for there to be no further referendum on EU membership until 2057. However, nothing to prevent any of the parties campaigning for rejoin during elections.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:26

Remain supporters will never answer your question as they think Brexit should be cancelled

Was referring to the remain supporters on this thread in response to LQ question

Where do we go from now?

PigletJohn · 09/02/2020 22:28

I now realise that Mystery is a Remainers' mole, whose objective is to stir up anti-Brexit feeling and hasten the next referendum.

It's working.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:29

What Cameron said doesn't matter, none of it was legally binding.

Its evident that either you don't really understand how our democracy works, its on going it doesn't only happen during elections or referendums.

We had our first referendum on the EEC membership within two years of joining, maybe we should have the first after we have left within two years of leaving.

But then what you really want is for others to shut up, and not hold leavers and their politicians to account so you get to shape the narrative.

Nope, don't have to, democracy see.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:32

I now realise that Mystery is a Remainers' mole, whose objective is to stir up anti-Brexit feeling and hasten the next referendum

I voted leave

PigletJohn · 09/02/2020 22:33

sure you did.

MysteryTripAgain · 09/02/2020 22:38

We had our first referendum on the EEC membership within two years of joining, maybe we should have the first after we have left within two years of leaving

Difference is that there was no vote on whether or not UK should join the EU in 1973. Government took it upon themselves to decide.

But then what you really want is for others to shut up, and not hold leavers and their politicians to account so you get to shape the narrative

Politicians are held to account at elections. Labour proved that. They ignored what they promised to do before the 2017 election, which was to honour the 2016 referendum result, and paid for it in the 2019 election.

malylis · 09/02/2020 22:42

No, no.

The UK government at the time were elected with joining the EEC in their manifesto.

I knew you wouldn't like that bit of precedent, funny isn't it.

Politicians are held to account throughout their time in government or opposition, they don't get to go away and avoid criticism, or any campaigning between elections.

As I said you understanding is poor.