Is the EU falling apart...?

[Frownette]

My mother seems to be convinced it is. She hasn't given a compelling reason.

And someone at the Halifax told her that it was!

The UK government at the time were elected with joining the EEC in their manifesto

And Boris Johnson was elected in 2019 on the manifesto of getting Brexit done. So where is the precedent of having another referendum in 2022?

UK government changed between joining the EU in 1973 and the referendum in 1975. Can’t see there being another election by January 2022.

Politicians are held to account throughout their time in government or opposition, they don't get to go away and avoid criticism, or any campaigning between elections

Changes only take place when there is an election.

Based on Boris’s large majority how would the other parties force another election before 2025?

As the Daily Express admitted,

"BREXIT took its most monumental leap forward last week as the EU passed Boris Johnson's Withdrawal Agreement and the UK left the bloc, four years after the vote. However, experts believe the country will eventually rejoin, thanks to the younger generations."

By Liam Doyle
PUBLISHED: 14:33, Fri, Feb 7, 2020 | UPDATED: 15:25, Fri, Feb 7, 2020

Well if we can have one in two years of joining then we can have one within two years of leaving.

Its a simple precedent, despite your leaps of logic.

Changes to government policy can take place between elections. However, being between elections doesn't mean debate needs to stop.

Otherwise there would be no need for an opposition.

Well if we can have one in two years of joining then we can have one within two years of leaving

Difference is vast. In 1975 UK was already in the EU. Leaving does not require the consent of any of the other members. Whereas joining requires the consent of all EU members.

As per your posts on other threads the UK’s contribution to the EU is a mere 5%. That so what makes you think the EU would immediately accept an application by the UK to join?

Also what makes you think that a vote would produce a majority to rejoin? Leave got a majority a second time three years after the vote in 2016.

@PigletJohn

Same reply as for Malylis.

What obliges the EU to accept an application from the UK to join?

Don't forget Brexit is costing millions to implement for EU countries. I think a lot of people will not want UK to rejoin.

Because the European Union, and member states have said so.

You don't seem to value the benefits of international cooperation, rather seeing everything as adversarial

I think like with most national governments, there is a huge disconnect between government (or commission) and the struggles of the electorate.

Individuals are worried about poverty, inequality and climate change. They see neither government nor the EU doing much on any of these and are disenfranchised. These governments/parliaments don’t “speak” to them.

Add to that struggling economies and growing despair at corruption, then it’s a real hotpot. Meanwhile the EU blithers on about European superstates and other aspirations which seems meaningless to most people.

The EU obviously does do things about poverty, investing in the most deprived areas in the UK and EU wide. It also is working on climate change solutions (international problem) with member states.

The EU may have individuals that talk about super states but its not an objective.

I

I have see zero efforts on climate change or poverty and indeed inequality. These things are what matter. I see an EU utterly out of touch. I work with EU legislation so an perhaps slightly embittered!

Then you aren't looking properly.

You don't see the investment in the poiorest areas in the UK?

You don't know about the climate change targets set in 2008 and improved upon since then? The Carbon emissions trading schemes and lots more?

The other thing you don't see, is inequality is essentially domestic policy. The UK is the most unequal country in the EU.

Its the never ending cry of leave voters, the EU has too much power, yet doesn't do anything about the things that it doesn't have any power over.

Where do you live Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow ? And what job do you do that involves working with EU legislation ?
Although to be fair that last question is a bit mute as everyone's job involves working with EU legislation in some way. Legislation that was often proposed by the UK and supported by the UK as a member state of the EU.
Perhaps there is a bit of legislation that you particularly dislike, care to share ?

I have see zero efforts on climate change

You can argue about whether the EU is being tough enough, but the statement that the EU has enacted no legislation to deal with issues like climate change tells me you don't know what you are talking about.

EU legislation already imposes (just one example) CO2 limits on auto makers which sell vehicles in the EU and these will tighten radically in 2021 to the point that only one car maker is on track to meet them.

Difference wasn't that there was no vote on whether to join the EEC or not. Heath won the 1970 election with a mandate to take the UK in. This was in accordance with our Parliamentary Democracy.

Harold Wilson dreamt up the idea of a Referendum for the same reason that Cameron tried it later - to deal with warring factions in his party. However, Wilson was a whole lot more wily than Cameron - he had a reputation for this- so got the result he wanted. Some of us are well old enough to remember.

Individuals are worried about poverty, inequality and climate change. They see neither government nor the EU doing much on any of these and are disenfranchised

People complain about the EU and its federal ambitions but unless the EU has more powers, it cannot force member states govt's to do anything at all.
Look at the inequalities on pensions, unemployment benefits, healthcare systems, min wages? etc etc.

As for people being worries about the climate? are they xxxx! the moment you tell them flights or fuel duty will will go up, then we all moan and blame the Chinese and Indians!

Johnson is rumoured to be wanting to increase council tax on the most valuable properties and redistribute the monies.... newspapers are all moaning!!!
Would be the same if he wanted to increase taxes for the NHS... we'd all be up in arms winging on about "tackle inefficiencies first"
We just had the chance to vote in a Govt that would have tried to addressed your concerns... but look what we did instead?

If the EU goes tits up, we'll be affected along with the rest of the global economy. It's our biggest trading partner and will continue to be. Our EU membership doesn't matter that much.

Remaining in the EU so we have influence over its direction and add stability through the size of our economy would actually be the best way to protect it and ourselves.

Just suppose that the EU did chose to become a Federal state. How would a small island nation on the periphery fare? Would it not have been better to be a member and to have a say in the running of this State? Anyone who thinks that the USA or China is going to give the UK as say in how they run their affairs is deluding themselves.

Because the European Union, and member states have said so

Is that in writing? If so what are the terms and conditions of UK’s rejoin of the EU?

Don't forget Brexit is costing millions to implement for EU countries. I think a lot of people will not want UK to rejoin

My thoughts too. If a rejoin was accepted it may be conditional on UK reimbursement of all wasted costs to implement Brexit and the costs of reversing as UK can’t make up their minds.

Terms and conditions would be negotiated obviously.

Terms and conditions would be negotiated obviously

So it has not yet been agreed that if UK were to apply to rejoin the EU there will be automatic acceptence by all member states of the EU.

Difference wasn't that there was no vote on whether to join the EEC or not. Heath won the 1970 election with a mandate to take the UK in. This was in accordance with our Parliamentary Democracy

Harold Wilson dreamt up the idea of a Referendum for the same reason that Cameron tried it later - to deal with warring factions in his party. However, Wilson was a whole lot more wily than Cameron - he had a reputation for this- so got the result he wanted. Some of us are well old enough to remember

How does any of this set a precedent for another referendum?

No because the terms would need to be agreed.

So international treaties are to be added to the list of things you don't understand ( democracy, international trade, article 50 and more).

If the EU goes tits up, we'll be affected along with the rest of the global economy

What a load. Can't believe that 15% of anything can topple the remaining 85%.

A gradual dismantling of the EU over time as members drop out one by one is my guess.