How can remainers get behind Brexit and pull together ?

[frumpety]

What does this mean in practical terms ? What do I need to actually do to achieve pulling together and getting behind Brexit ? Why does it matter if I and the rest of the 48 million don't ?

How can remainers get behind Brexit and pull together ?
I have given this great thought and
I am now behind Brexit
and you cannot prove I'm not
because you cannot define it

I shall therefore get back to campaigning for BRINO followed by ReJoin
knowing that in the mean time
I am firmly behind my personal interpretation of Brexit

I could go along with that definition LQ.

In a word, no. I am a remainder and I did not want to leave the EU. Why should I go along with it? Leavers have made their bed, they can lie in it

My interpretation of Brexit is Rejoin, or Regain, and I am sticking to that, and won't be bullied out of it.

But seriously, someone, I forget who said, that we would spend four years trying to leave and four trying to rejoin. So far, they haven't been all that wrong. Although Johnson doesn't at the moment look as though he wants to rejoin - it does depend what happens in the next few months. If the Unicorns don't start arriving soon, he might find the country turns against him.

Since then PTAs with Singapore, Japan, South Africa, Georgia, Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique, Botswana and Lesotho have come into force

We have already signed agreements with Georgia and the SACUM countries:

The countries covered by the SACUM-UK EPA are:
•Botswana
•Eswatini
•Lesotho
•Namibia
•South Africa
•Mozambique

The Breugel research lists the Netherlands as the UK's 3rd largest trading partner but trade figures for the Netherlands are distorted:

"3.The Rotterdam effect: It has been argued that the pattern of trade between the UK and other countries has been distorted by the location of big international ports such as Rotterdam.The Rotterdam effect is the situation where goods which are initially exported to one country are then re-exported somewhere else. An ONS article estimated that 50 per cent of all goods exported to the Netherlands were re-exported to non-EU countries. It also estimated that the Rotterdam effect would account for around four percentage points of the UK’s exports of goods."

My oh my, I can really see trade with those countries taking off sufficiently to replace that with our nearest neighbours.

East Asian press report today;
"Japan Eyes Free Trade Deal With Post-Brexit Britain."

"With the UK officially withdrawn from the EU, both London and Tokyo are eager to sign a bilateral trade deal."

"British Foreign Minister Dominic Raab is traveling to the Asia-Pacific region this week with stops in Australia, Japan, Singapore, and Malaysia."

"The purpose of Raab’s trip is to prepare the road for bilateral British free trade deals in a post-Brexit world, ideally finalizing these trade deals by January 2021, when Britain’s transition period ends."

"Both the Japanese and British governments have expressed hopes that their bilateral trade deal will be more ambitious than the existing Japan-EU EPA."

thediplomat.com/2020/02/japan-eyes-free-trade-deal-with-post-brexit-britain/

I think brexit is a mistake and, whether it becomes a success or not, I think taking this huge risk with our economy is a mistake. We’ll never be able to say for sure how much extra debt the UK ends up on as a result of brexit, or where the economy would have been otherwise.

But there might be some good things eg the announcement yesterday that there’ll be no more fossil fuel cars after 2035 - is this an incentive for electric cars to be made here and companies to invest more in the UK? I like the idea of the UK leading the way in this.

I still think leaving is a mistake, and we could have done the same whilst in the EU, but I’m trying to look for wins.

All this effort - 35k civil servants dedicated to getting us through brexit. Surely that effort could be ploughed into something more useful.

Do we have confidence in Dominic Raab? I do hope someone has told him where Japan is.

"Japan Eyes Free Trade Deal With Post-Brexit Britain."

And yet both the Asian Review and Japan Times have been reporting for several weeks that Japan won't replicate the EU deal as it believes it can leverage a better deal for Japan from the UK.

Do we have confidence in Dominic Raab? I do hope someone has told him where Japan is.

Ha, ha.
I was reading a twitter thread via the Guardian the other day - remainers discussing how they were going to go out of their way not to buy British made goods - it seems that remainers really do want Brexit to fail.

"Japan Eyes Free Trade Deal With Post-Brexit Britain."

And really, CutAndPasteOva, do you honestly think that we'll get better, of even as good, a deal as we had through the EU?

Bollocks you do...

And yet both the Asian Review and Japan Times have been reporting for several weeks that Japan won't replicate the EU deal as it believes it can leverage a better deal for Japan from the UK.

Benefits for both sides;
"For the U.K., an aggressive trade deal with Japan is desirable as potential leverage to strengthen its position vis-à-vis the EU."

"it believes it can leverage a better deal for Japan from the UK."

I'm sorry, but I must have missed the bit that says that Japan is going to give the UK a better deal as well, because obviously if it's better for Japan it's going to be better for the UK.

In Brexitland...

What british made goods?

Was that all 16m remainers or 2 or 3 ?

If Japan is very keen to have a FTA deal with the UK, what does that tell you?
The deal took 6 years, a UK/JPN should take quite a bit less.

Why does someone who has spent almost no time in the UK for over 30 years even care whether or not we are in the EU? Patently Mystery has zero attachment to the place.

Some remainers probably do. People are very angry and that will come out in various ways I suppose.

I don't want it to fail. I think it probably will but I don't want it to.

I don't know if I'm alone among remainers but, even if Brexit succeeds/is neutral I will still be angry that it was voted for in the first place. I'm angry that people have taken the risk, not only for themselves but for all of us. We won't even know if the bet has paid off for at least a decade.

I've spent all my working life with the recession in the background, keeping wages down. Just as things started to right themselves we had the referendum and all the uncertainty started again. 4 years in and no end in sight. At this rate I'll spend 25 (at least) years being held back by external factors that were none of my doing. It wasn't necessary and I'll never be ok with it happening.

It's principally that I think which makes me feel that "coming together" will be very difficult if not impossible.

"For the U.K., an aggressive trade deal with Japan is desirable as potential leverage to strengthen its position vis-à-vis the EU."

Well, sure the UK wants "an aggressive deal" - but why should Japan give the UK a better deal? It's a much smaller market. If Japan holds out and gives the UK a worse deal than the EU-Japan deal, where is the win for the UK?

I'm involved in Twitter --continually- and nowhere have I seen a tweet saying leavers aren't going to buy British made goods. Why on earth would they say that? I would be buying UK meat if I knew its origin..

Just read this...
US govt lobbying UK to reduce & eliminate “country of origin” labeling as part of any post Brexit US-UK trade deal.

US poultry lobby & others have become increasingly concerned about potential consumer & even retailer boycotts in UK of US foods. Yes!!

Unless you buy from a farm shop you will have no idea if you're buying chlorinated chicken or not, or hormone fed beef.

Their chicken and pork plants are unhygienic, hence food poisoning at the rate of ten times higher in the US versus UK...

www.theguardian.com/animals-farmed/2018/feb/21/dirty-meat-shocking-hygiene-failings-discovered-in-us-pig-and-chicken-plants

Here's some detail

In fact, if Japan holds out for zero tariffs on Japanese built cars (as has been reported) that could make things very interesting for the Nissan, Toyota and Honda plants in the UK.

GDP ...
UK: 2.622 trillion $
EU27 16.2 tr$

total GDP of below = 0.386 tr$. $9.7bn worth of trade in 2018 (vs. $300 bn+ trade UK has had with EU). Yeah sure, the S.Africa Union will super duper replace EU, sure they will.

South Africa 0.349 tr$
Botswana 0.017 tr$
Eswatini 0.004 tr$
Lesotho 0.0026 tr$
Namibia 0.013 tr$
Mozambique 0.012 tr$

List of what Japan might be wanting. Auto-tariffs are huge part of the pic.

And yet both the Asian Review and Japan Times have been reporting for several weeks that Japan won't replicate the EU deal as it believes it can leverage a better deal for Japan from the UK.

Article in the Asian Review from last week;

"Post-Brexit UK should prioritize Southeast Asia trade deals."

"London is well-placed to surpass Brussels in relations with ASEAN."

"London now has a unique opportunity to reshape what Brexit supporters call "Global Britain." Relations with Japan, India, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand can grow substantially--and so can engagement with Asia's central institution, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations,"

"diplomatic advantages reinforce Britain's substantial soft power in Southeast Asia, which exceeds that of any other European nation. More than 40% of ASEAN citizens living in the EU reside in Britain, and the U.K. is by far the region's most important European education destination, accounting for 70% of ASEAN citizens who are in Europe for that purpose."

"One early outcome of this close relationships is that a U.K.-ASEAN Dialogue Partnership could be established. Both Singapore and Vietnam, the current chair of ASEAN, are among those that would support a British application, bypassing earlier European applications."

"Subsequently, London could make a strong case for membership of the ASEAN Defense Ministers' Meeting Plus, the region's premier security mechanism, where member states confer with eight outside countries including the U.S., China, Russia, India and Japan.The U.K. has the most extensive security posture in Southeast Asia of any EU state, and is one of only two with noteworthy power projection capabilities."

"Second, and unlike the EU as a whole, Britain will have flexible and sovereign hard power and will be able to make a strong case for assisting in the maintenance of a secure, free and open Indo-Pacific. Its navy maintained a continuous presence in the Asia-Pacific in 2018, and London is moving to reestablish a significant military presence in the region, possibly including a naval base."

"the U.K. is one of the largest European markets and sources of foreign direct investment for ASEAN.Total two-way trade between Britain and ASEAN amounted to more than $48 billion in 2018. The U.K. invested $22 billion in ASEAN in 2017."

"Post-Brexit, London is planning bilateral trade agreements with Singapore and Vietnam on the basis of existing EU agreements. Deals may also be struck with Thailand and Indonesia, whose talks with Brussels have stalled and may be surpassed by London."

asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Post-Brexit-UK-should-prioritize-Southeast-Asia-trade-deals

lljkk
I only mentioned South Africa, Botswana etc. etc. as a reply to ContinuityError's post at 17.42 (recent EU trade deals we have lost).

Roussette

Jan 2019 BBC:
"Beef scare: Polish bad meat spreads to 11 EU states."

"Eleven EU countries have imported beef from a Polish abattoir accused of handling sick cows"

"Besides Poland, it named the affected countries as: Estonia, Finland, France, Hungary, Lithuania, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, Germany and Slovakia."

"cows too sick to stand dragged from lorries into the slaughterhouse"

"Poland's chief veterinary officer, Pawel Niemczuk, said the plant was involved in "illegal activities, as slaughter was carried out deliberately at night, in order to avoid official supervision".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47071234