Please can leavers please tell me how Brexit will benefit us?

[DaveGrohlsMuse]

Whenever this is asked mid-thread, it's never answered. There's plenty of information out there about how the UK had benefited from membership, but I really struggle to find info on how it's had a negative impact.
So in Jan 2021, once the transition period is over and we actually start to see the impact of the decision, what will improve? How will yours, and mine, and the general population's lives improve?

But realistically, what are they celebrating? Genuinely interested, as it might change my mind

Democracy preserved was the biggest celebration. Without democracy to resolve differences of opinion it is who has the most effective weapons that prevail.

Sterling has appreciated against the Euro as the uncertainty whether or not Brexit is happening is over.

UK can approach whoever they wish for future trade deals. Considering that US, Japan, China and Russia want the EU to break up Boris May do better in trade talks than people think. Logic is that if other EU members see UK doing well outside the EU it increases the chances of other EU campaigning to leave.

UK can make its own rules. No more ECJ.

Facts aren't the strong points of leavers here.

There are more than 3 net contributors.

The UK benefits by far more than its membership fee.

If the UK wants trade deals it won't be making its own rules, even within the WTO it doesn't set its own schedules or make its own rules.

You keep stating that all these other countries want the EU to break up. Apart from Trump and Putin what evidence do you have of this?

Facts aren't the strong points of leavers here

There are more than 3 net contributors

But fact that there are more net takers than there are net contributors is indisputable. Before UK left the EU my understanding was that there were 10 givers and 18 takers.

Nope, there are 4 countries whose contributions are neuatral.

Then you have the countries were their net benefit is very very low. There are a few larger net beneficiaries.

What sort of trade deals are you hoping the UK get Mystery and with which countries that we didn't already have trade deals with as a member of the EU ?
Do you think we have the clout as one country to negotiate deals at the same level as a trading bloc of 27 ?
Do you think we can make trade deals outside the EU that allow us to completely retain sovereignty and not be rule takers in any way shape or form ?

Do you think we have the clout as one country to negotiate deals at the same level as a trading bloc of 27?

Less infighting perhaps;
"The final stage of the negotiations led to a row between countries with a large agricultural sector (led by France, and including Ireland, Poland and Belgium) and more export-oriented countries, like Germany, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Sweden, the Czech Republic and Latvia.The group led by France says European agriculture is threatened by additional imports of agricultural products with lower standards, while the group led by Germany wants the trade agreement completed to open up export opportunities for their car and car parts industries."

That doesn't really answer the question I posed Clavonia

Low wages are not down to immigration ( See BOe, LSE and UCL studies for more info).

Some people disagree;
"The ITF is working with its unions in Europe to expose the hidden shame of Europe’s road transport industry. Drivers from Eastern Europe are brought to Western Europe to drive, they receive an hourly wage as low as EUR1.70, they have to sleep in the cab of the truck for up to eight months at a time, they wash and cook in car parks, they have limited access to toilet facilities, and are given fake papers to evade authorities. All the while they transport goods for some of the most successful and profitable multi-national companies in the world."

www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/road-transport/european-
trucking-exploitation-of-workers

Tampon tax the EU were changing.

I thought the final decision/implementation had stalled - no definite date given?

www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/road-transport/european-trucking-exploitation-of-workers

That doesn't really answer the question I posed

Obviously we will have more clout to negotiate trade deals tailored to our own interests. Take a group of 28 colleagues - if 8 people want to go to Pizza Express for a meal and 20 people want a Chinese meal - guess which group wins the argument?

Obviously we will have more clout to negotiate trade deals tailored to our own interests

And the interests of those countries who we are wishing to negotiate trade deals with ? Who are we looking to do deals with ?

"Some people disagree"

You realise that example is because of illegal practices? You think they are going to stop when out of the EU?

Ridiculous example.

I am a remainer. I want to stay as part of the EU.

but yes, even I can see some coming advantages. Not to leaving, but to being outside when/if things do implode.

Too many countries want to join. Countries which see a net benefit to joining. Refusing them entry will be seen as increasingly petty.

I think we have left "badly". Leaving the top table whilst still being confined by the rules seems daft. Though it gives us that period where "We have left" can show that nothing bad has happened...

nothing has changed... breathing space... only to be thought of again in 11months minus a week or 2.

Ridiculous example
Not according to the self employed truck driver I heard on LBC - but hey, as long as you don't have to queue for 10 minutes at passport control en route to your skiing holiday.

I thought you were a fan of Jeremy Corbyn?

“What there wouldn’t be is the wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industry.”

I see that Keir Starmer aims to win back the working class vote;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7952535/Labours-Keir-Starmer-vows-bring-freedom-movement-prime-minister.html

My European friends and neighbours are well off professionals - what's not to like?

Do you think we have the clout as one country to negotiate deals at the same level as a trading bloc of 27?

You have assumed that the 27 are all of equal strength. Very incorrect. France, Germany and UK make up 50% of the EU economy.

Too many countries want to join. Countries which see a net benefit to joining

Exactly. The explosion in membership was into Eastern Europe who are all net takers from the EU. Germany not bothered though as they have huge trade surplus from the EU.

Apart from Trump and Putin what evidence do you have of this

Trump and Putin are a good start don’t you think?

Trump and Putin aren't good examples, one is a dictator for a start, the other has limited time in power.

Evidence for the other countries you claimed want the EU to collapse?

The EU has more clout than any of those countries negotiating individually though.

Net beneficiaries become net contributors over time, the amounts recieved are small in comparison to GDP.

Evidence for the other countries you claimed want the EU to collapse

Because without an EU an Eastern bloc will be able to swamp the west.

That's not evidence of the other claims you made.

Superfurrydoggy your posts are so insightful and thoughtful and balanced.

Net beneficiaries become net contributors over time

Over a very very long time before they might break even. Take Ireland as an example.

They have received over €44 billion since 1976. Net contribution was about €200 million in 2018. At that rate it will take Ireland 223 years to repay. Factor inflation into the numbers it is much longer as €200 million in 2018 is worth massively less than €200 million in 1976.