Please can leavers please tell me how Brexit will benefit us?

[DaveGrohlsMuse]

Whenever this is asked mid-thread, it's never answered. There's plenty of information out there about how the UK had benefited from membership, but I really struggle to find info on how it's had a negative impact.
So in Jan 2021, once the transition period is over and we actually start to see the impact of the decision, what will improve? How will yours, and mine, and the general population's lives improve?

@mockerisrightasusual

Stop your fake outrage, you know it's just a saying. I'm not condoning labour camps. A few hours work a week in exchange for state benefits wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Especially in an industry that clearly needs the assistance.

They can't answer. The referendum was based on emotion, reality is based on fact.

We're still waiting for reality to bite.

@Flimflamfloogety using free labour would actually undermine the economy. Shit jobs don't pay enough to make them worth doing, it's economics.

flimflam

Im not sure getting someone untrained and who doesnt want to be there taking care of our elderly and/or vulnerable is the best idea in the world

No outrage on my part. A few hours work in return for which benefits? We have a minimum wage. Jobseekers is only payable if you are committed to searching for work for up to 35 hours a week, which you cannot do if you are working for the state without pay, which is ever so illegal in so many ways.

You cannot force people to work in a civilised society. If you deny them out-of-work benefits they will turn to crime. The cost of dealing with that will easily outspend the money you've saved by not paying them benefits.

Just going to say the same Rufus, wouldn’t want someone who doesn’t want to be a carer looking after the vulnerable.

@Rufus

Who said caring? People have to undergo training to do that kind of work and rightly so. You don't need qualifications to clean the streets, pick fruit etc. And for people who have been unemployed for a long time, it builds valuable work experience until they can find a job they actually want.

Tax payers get something in return for our tax money, and we don't have to bring in low skilled workers, meaning we can let in more high skilled workers

@Flimflamfloogety - work in return for money- isn't that called a job?

The referendum was based on emotion

Hence why many already see Brexit as a success. Germany had to be kicked into touch twice last century. Some view EU as the forth Reich.

The law could be changed.
Help in a care home , porter in hospital, clean the roads, we will count it as work experience and you get a reference and we will pay you the going rate.
If your good at it, you get first dibs on any jobs in the sector you like.
Then all they do is treat it as paid work.

Slave Labour was one of the reasons the Nazis lost the war. Always quality control problems on the production lines.

Anyway- UK unemployment is pretty low- one of the lowest in the EU in fact.

Mockers did

And you didn’t dismiss it,

But obviously you are now

Thats not meant to be snide

I just mean that you obviously missed it and therefore were not commenting on it

Slave Labour was one of the reasons the Nazis lost the war

Invasion of Russia in winter more like. The so called master race couldn’t handle the weather.

@FreakStar

Yes. And most of us accept that is how you earn money. Some people seem to expect money for doing sweet FA though.

Anyway I digress, this particular gripe isn't solely linked to EU membership. It's just a huge bug bear of mine, in a very very long list of complaints

@RufustheLanglovingreindeer

Yes I see it now... I believe the phrase used was arse-wipers

I personally don't view caring as low skilled work by any means. People under go training to go into care, and I whole heartedly agree I wouldn't want any old numpty caring for my relatives

....And declaring war on the USA when the Tripartite Pact did not require this. But slave labour was still one of the reasons.

And something a lot of people don't know is that the USA still has slavery. The Thirteenth Amendment specifically permits it for convicts, and many US businesses use prison labour in their production.

Maybe if we get out of that pesky ECHR we can do the same?

If they really want to live on the small amount of benefits they get then it's their life and a sad life at that- they are to be pitied in my view. Most long term benefit claimants are mentally ill, drug and alcohol addicts, people who grew up in deprivation and can't see any way forward etc. Some scheme to get them into work and a different life track would be great but it's not always possible. And yes- not really anything to do with the EU.

Universal Basic Income is a very interesting idea. You have to get the rate right, and I think I'd make it conditional on not getting a serious criminal conviction. I'd give it a go.

@freakstar

I agree there a multitude of reasons people claim benefits and some do need to be pitied. I don't think throwing money (however measly the sum may be) is the only solution. People should be supported back into work , and not into a lifetime of reliance which now seems to be the norm. Benefits should be a safety net not a permanent solution. Work experience is just as important as the handout.

An argument for a different time and thread perhaps - I've hijacked this thread enough already! I'll agree to disagree with everyone, and bow out to leave everyone to go back to good ol' brexit bickering

Those of you think forcing claimant's to work as a carer let me give you an insight into the day to day life of a carer...

at 7am I spend an hour alone with Doris. Doris has the kind of dementia where what comes into her head comes out of mouth. I am regularly called fat, told to lose weight and treated to in-depth, graphic descriptions of how she wants to be fucked from behind by a giant cock. Doris also likes to pretend she is deaf/can't walk/blind/allowed out unsupervised/insert Doris' fantasy of the day here. She will ask me to carry her/arrange her a male prostitute/book her a taxi to the Mecca etc. She point blank refuses to get out of bed if I decline to cater to her fantasy of the day.

I have one hour to persuade Doris to get out of bed, shower her (even though she is, in her opinion clean/deathly allergic to water/able to wash herself. I am frequently accused of trying to murder Doris while I'm showering her no matter how hard I try to keep her calm. After I've showered her I have to dress her in clothes she insists are not hers. She's not an old lady, only an old lady would wear her clothes. Once she is eventually dressed I have to cook for her while she yells instructions at me while huffing on a fag (and yes I can ask Doris not to smoke in her own home but she will refuse). I can leave if Doris refuses to stop smoking over me but that leaves her without breakfast and medication.

Once breakfast is finally prepared and scoffed at by Doris who will refuse to eat it because she didn't ask for eggs, she wanted toast she did ask for eggs and promptly forgot she asked for eggs I have to administer medication that could kill her if given in the wrong dose while she is still screaming at me about her eggs. I then must convince Doris to swallow the tablets even though she thinks she only takes one paracetamol a day and that I've made a mistake giving her 6 tablets.

I then change Doris' piss soaked bed, put her washing in, clean the kitchen and write my notes all while she's smoking over me, accusing me of trying to kill her, calling me foul names and telling me she wants to be fucked in the arse by the maintenance man.

After that I can leave and go to Ethel. Ethel has learning difficulties and dementia and is prone to self harm and sudden bursts of violence. I have to do everything I did for Doris for Ethel but I only get 30 minutes to do it because Doris' family pay privately for her care, Ethel's don't.

Tell me how long you think it would take for an unwilling 'carer' to snap and cause Doris or Ethel harm either through violence, negligence or neglect?

Care is not for the unwilling or untrained. You need a certain personality to cope in care. You need to actually care and want to make a difference.

Farmers use Eat European labour because Brits do not want to pick vegetables.
They even take benefits sanctions rather than do it.

The vast bulk of UK unemployed are older and iller and less fit than the people employers need

If you want to bring back the workhouse - Jacob Rees Mogg does - shame on you

Maybe if we get out of that pesky ECHR we can do the same?

This to me is really sad. Not only was it initially designed by UK Lawyers and is part of the Council of Europe, but it was drawn up in response to the horrors of Nazi Germany. People realised that we needed to do better. Sadly that generation is now passing away, and it looks as though we are forgetting the lessons learnt then.

The Germans were a cultured civilised nation who went and took leave of their collective senses and if it happened to them it could happen to us all.

Farmer's use Eastern European workers because Brits can't do it. Think about your nearest fruit/veg farm. How many of them are close to large towns with reliable public transport and decent childcare closeby?

Plus the long, long hours and short, short seasons. You'd have to come off UC for the sake of six weeks work only to have to go back on it and then wait five weeks for your next payment.

In the bygone era Brexiteers are so keen on POW picked fruit and veg and before that there were labour camps/workhouses. It also wasn't uncommon to see women with their kids strapped to them in the fields, can you imagine the horror and calls to SS if a single mother of today's world took her baby to the strawberry farm for 12 hours a day, seven days a week?