Please can leavers please tell me how Brexit will benefit us?

[DaveGrohlsMuse]

Whenever this is asked mid-thread, it's never answered. There's plenty of information out there about how the UK had benefited from membership, but I really struggle to find info on how it's had a negative impact.
So in Jan 2021, once the transition period is over and we actually start to see the impact of the decision, what will improve? How will yours, and mine, and the general population's lives improve?

We have split, it happened last week,legally.
There is no need for us lesser folk to have to keep explaining.
We wanted to divorce, and that is now reality.

Most Leavers say we have to wait and see what the benefits will be. Don’t think I would be too impressed if that was offered as a divorce settlement.

In divorce terms, we have a decree nisi, and until May to apply for an extension or the decree absolute will come into force at the end of the year.

We are still living under the same roof and have yet to agree a tenancy or find somewhere else to live.

We have agreed to pay all the alimoney sought by the other party, and continue to pay maintenance.

Brexit has been a rerun of my divorce in many ways. I served notice that I wanted to leave the union and provided evidence of unreasonable behaviour.

The other side objected to my reasons and tried to prevent my departure. Failed as judge accepted my evidence.

So the remainers next strategy was to drag out the financial settlement )withdrawal agreement) for a long as possible in hope that I changed my mind. Dragged on for just under 2 years.

Don’t think I would be too impressed if that was offered as a divorce settlement

In divorce the usual process is to agree the settlement before the Decree Absolute is issued. Not the other way around as in Brexit.

How to reconcile these two statements oft heard from leave voters:

Statement 1: We knew what we were voting for.

Statement 2: No one knows what's going to happen, we'll have to wait and see.

The 2nd statement is often said in response to so-called Remainer doom and gloom prophesising or crystal ball syndrome.

At least we agree on one thing Mystery!

That is why I believe the referendum should never have been held until we knew what would happen. Then people could genuinely say they knew what they were voting for

Everyone knows as much as everyone else, if you want more info you need to read up on what ever it is you want to know, not keep asking in MN.
We know we don't know, can you understand that.

That is why I believe the referendum should never have been held until we knew what would happen

Article 50 prevents that from happening as negotiations on trade deals can only commence after UK had left the EU. Article 50 was passed by all member states in 2009 after development commenced in 2002.

As EU exports more to the UK than UK exports to the EU the uncertainty period costs them more than the UK. Article 50 not well thought out at all. Businesses on both sides of the channel have lost because of all the back and forth since 2016.

How to reconcile these two statements oft heard from leave voters

Statement 1: We knew what we were voting for

Choice was leave or remain. Nothing else on the ballot paper.

Statement 2: No one knows what's going to happen, we'll have to wait and see

This is dictated by Article 50 which prevented discussion on trade deals until UK had left the EU. Hence impossible to know what the outcome of deals would be on 23 June 2016 as such discussions were not allowed until 1 Februay 2020

Have you seen what the title of the thread is mummy2017?

I have read the title and given my views as have other leave supporters, but remain don't agree. Dosen't mean that question was not answered.

We knew we were voting for uncertain.
You can you know.
We can vote for change .
People will still eat.
There are still jobs.
The UK is not a boat that will sink.
So there , we are telling you why we voted.

I do hope that the pro Brexit people start to cheer up about the choice they made as their negativity is getting very wearing

Well, I thought you were voting for more money for the NHS - which is something that most of us would support.

I do find it hard to reconcile 'voting for uncertain' with the easiest deals in history for which we hold all the cards - which could be construed as something which would be straightforward, not uncertain.

The UK in its present form is easily a boat which could sink. The UK my parents were born into is not the same UK that I was born into in less than 35 years later. Remember also that all empires pass away. Greek civilisation led the world for thousands of years now - I can't say that Greece leads the world now.

But when you ask people what they voted for very few say they voted for uncertainty they said they knew what they voted for, without saying what that actually meant.

Watching programmes like Question Time you get Leavers in the audience saying we know what we voted for, we want Brexit done. But they don’t say what that actually means.

I am sure most people who voted Leave assume that things will be better

@MysteryTripAgain

Thank you, both your explanations are factually correct and enhance my point.

However, there is more context to the statements; to whom they are said and in response to what.

'I knew what what I voted for', has been said in response to a typical Remain argument, which is actualou long the lines of what you say above;

'You didn't what you were voting for, there was only Leave or Remain on the ballot paper, there was no information on how we would leave, so how could you know the consequences' (or benefits depending on your viewpoint).

The 2nd statement is often said in response to Remain voters when they point out possible pit falls, financial losses and other undesirable outcomes of Brexit.

There may also be responses such:
'We'll be fine'
'More project fear'
'Another Remainer crystal ball'
'No one actually knows, so how can you say that?'

As you so rightly pointed out, negotiations could not begin until 1st February 2020. Therefore all predictions of economic prosperity, a 'new dawn', great trade deals etc etc, are all also, at this point, unknowns.

So perhaps the more accurate statement to say, rather than 'I know what I voted for' is:

'I voted only to leave the EU. I don't know how or when that will happen or what the consequences or benefits will be. I only know I voted to Leave'

One can make educated forecasts, or speculate as to the possible outcomes, or projected economic growth, but I know that some leavers apparently don't trust experts so they wouldn't take that on board.

So actually the Brexit project is a gamble based on faith. Faith in BJ to negotiate wisely and deliver the promised Brexit of the Leave campaign. After all, no one knows.

*actually (typo)

No the UK is not a boat. Just kicked the ground outside to check.
We will not sink.
Oh this should be noted as well.
There have always been NHS que.
There has always been a housing shortage.
Labour had plenty of years in power and never managed to change this.
We do not blame the EU for this, but people have had many years of sameness, people will always want change when this happens, if the sameness means they have not benefited.

I only know I voted to Leave

Leave was one of the two options on the ballot paper.

So actually the Brexit project is a gamble based on faith. Faith in BJ to negotiate wisely and deliver the promised Brexit of the Leave campaign

For some that may be correct. For some that UK has left the EU is sufficient based on;

National Pride (ie EU has finally been told to piss off)

Well, I thought you were voting for more money for the NHS - which is something that most of us would support

I never believed the Red Bus as UK does not pay EU 350 million per week.

with the easiest deals in history for which we hold all the cards

Not specified on the ballot paper.

without saying what that actually meant

Ballot paper was a binary choice between leave and remain. No reference to deals, etc.

The EU had been told to piss off

Well, that is really good for negotiating trade deals, isn't it?

The misplaced hatred for the EU is frankly, insane.

Ah well. The shit will hit the fan this time next year.

Schadenfreude isn't my thing and there will be no glee from remainers. Pure pity, I expect.

Deadsouls good post.

Where does National Pride get you Mystery. Not going to put food on the table

@MysteryTripAgain

I surprisingly agree with you.

There are probably as many reasons people voted Leave as people who voted and vice versa.

I agree that the fact that we have left the EU is enough for some people and the rest doesn't matter as much as simply leaving.

Funnily enough a few moments ago you said that the UK was not a boat which would sink, which I took to be implied that it was a boat which would float. Silly me.

It does not alter my factual statement that the UK I was born into was not the same UK that my parents were born into.