Brexit - the Good, the Bad and hopefully not the Ugly

[Bearbehind]

Following on the thread about how we will measure the successes or failures of Brexit, I’m just leaving this one here for people to record the successes and failures as they occur / as they see them

All welcome if you discuss the subject of the thread - this isn’t a thread for moaning about the fact Brexit is happening! 😁

The EU Negotiating position is already a matter of public record
ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/slides_the_wa_explained.pdf
The UK Government says it will publish theirs next month
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51255528

at which stage we will have a much better idea of what will happen by next year

Where is the benefit?

If only I knew. We'll have to wait a while yet to find out. About 40 years I heard.

It was to be the world wide production plant, as it was for the civic. Electric cars are the fastest growing market in the EU as a whole (hence why Tesla are building a plant in Germany). There is huge demand.

The infrastructure has not kept up in many parts of the UK, but it is coming in.

Honda are leaving because they can't guarantee supply chains post brexit, they can't guarantee the JIT or that trade will be frictionlese.They can in Japan. It was brought forward for Honda because of the end of the line for this model three door civic/CRV .

Nissan may have longer because of the leaf production line, but the next model qashqai will probably not go there as it won't invest in retooling.

PSA will close Elsmere port too, not economical with the risks/higher costs and spare capacity at other Opel plants.

I understand they have wrapped up all prep and produced more slides but they haven’t been published yet

So how have EU got them? Thought there was an EU website that would have such documents for businesses to print off?

It’s EUs prep slides I’m referring to. Some journalists have seen the final prep slides and reported on them a few days ago, they just haven’t been put on the TF50 website yet.

As Listening says, we haven’t published anything yet, but major business are reporting that they have only just started to be consulted.

malylis
I would be very surprised if Japan move much manufacturing back home - they have rather a growing shortage of workers.
But being able to produce their left and right hand drive cars in the EU and then move them around the world will be a huge benefit.
If the UK is not in the JIT loop, it will be left aside.

you know thats what happens when you give complex decisions to people who don't understand the full implications

The only qualifications required to vote are;

To be over voting age

To turn up at the polling station

Your suggestion that only people who know best should be allowed to vote will never catch on.

That isn't what was suggested. Its that this issue was too complex for most people to understand.

Its that this issue was too complex for most people to understand

So how was it not complicated in the 1975 referendum?

What was the purpose of Article 50?

Does not sound good that once a country has joined the EU it was never allowed to leave as too complicated for people to understand.

When the day arrives that people can’t choose their own destination, but must follow only what government (who are elected by the people remember) then we are back to Victorian times.

Ah, as usual, Mystery avoids the difficult questions...

No doubt followed by a cut and paste demonstrating her lack of understanding of democracy, business, trade, etc...

Bear started this thread to highlight developments and discuss merits thereof. Mystery has form for derailing, obfuscating and bludgeoning threads with inconsequential nonsense. I don't read mystery novels but I am keen to follow developments based on Bears OP; is it possible to do this?

Your reasons that you gave for people voting the way they did above prove that it was too complex.

The 1975 referendum had the benefits and risks clearly explained without the level of untruths being peddled by the leave campaign.

A country can leave, but they can't have the same cherry pick the benefits of membership country which is exactly what leave advocated.

There are many issues dealt with at government and parliament level because they require more in depth knowledge. Its why we have representative democracy not a plebiscite

So, Mystery You believe we should have 'votes on every major decision and want an end to representative democracy?

As i said on another thread, we shouldn't have had the '75 vote.

Govt's should lay out a manifesto and we then vote in the govt to implement it, the idea being they are the experts or employ them to advise.

I'm not into self surgery for the same reasons, i also don't service my own car or fly a plane.

I am keen to follow developments based on Bears OP; is it possible to do this?

Sadly not jason

This lot think raking over the same ground again and again is going to make some kind of difference

It’s absolutely mind blowing but also goes a long way to explain why there is so much division over Brexit - too many people just won’t stop banging on about their own views and attempt to seek some kind of middle ground

Its that this issue was too complex for most people to understand

Completely agree. And people who think it isn't definitely don't understand as they can't even see how complex this is.

So, Mystery You believe we should have 'votes on every major decision and want an end to representative democracy?

Whether or not to remain in the EU sounds like a major decision to me that people should be allowed to vote on.

The 1975 referendum set a precedent.

Even worse is that many of the politicians championing Leave didn't even understand how complex the question was themselves.

The 1975 referendum didn't set a precedent otherwise we would have had one with every major constitutional change.

Don't remember the House of Lords reform being at a referendum.

Or many others.

Ah, as usual, Mystery avoids the difficult questions

Which ones? Maybe I have missed some of the posts as had a 3 hour drive early evening.

Bear, brexit is going to affect peoples every day lives for years. Their jobs, their dcs futures. They have every right to bang on about it. There is an AIBU thread were people are also complaining. If you thought voting Tory would airbrush out the last 4 years and end brexit on 31 Jan you are sadly mistaken.

The 1975 referendum didn't set a precedent

For EU membership it did.

Whether or not to remain in the EU sounds like a major decision to me that people should be allowed to vote on.

I've heard the EU referendum compared to asking the public to vote on which type of nuclear reactor we should build at Hinkley Point.
Reactor type A (really complex scientific word only nuclear physics have heard)
or
Reactor type B (really complex scientific word only nuclear physics have heard)

Mystery has form for derailing, obfuscating and bludgeoning threads with inconsequential nonsense

This thread and the previous was immediately used by remain supporters to repeat their arguments that have failed twice.

I answered Bears question on both threads in the early posts. However, the bad losers jumped in without answering the OP and presented their we know better arguments again.

Bear how is criticising the governments current handling of Brexit, something which will be crucial to its success or lack thereof, raking over old ground? I made one post about misinformation early on in the thread which was in response to mystery trying to claim democracy restored as a success. If you want a list of successes or failure only perhaps this thread was started a year too early? It may not make a difference but I think it is important that we do scrutinise the current handling of Brexit rather than result (success/failure) only. Or do you think crossing our collective fingers and hoping for the best is the best way of ensuring Brexit is a success?

I've heard the EU referendum compared to asking the public to vote on which type of nuclear reactor we should build at Hinkley Point

That’s a new one.