Brexit - the Good, the Bad and hopefully not the Ugly

[Bearbehind]

Following on the thread about how we will measure the successes or failures of Brexit, I’m just leaving this one here for people to record the successes and failures as they occur / as they see them

All welcome if you discuss the subject of the thread - this isn’t a thread for moaning about the fact Brexit is happening! 😁

Your reasons that you gave for people voting the way they did above prove that it was too complex

So why did they bother to vote at all. Could easily have stated at home. 2016 referendum had a high turnout remember. So there was obviously a high interest.

It's an example of how much knowledge you would need to make a property informed decision on Brexit. But of course, as we know, leavers all 'knew what we voted for'. So all the consequences, good and bad, are on leave voters.

Brexit wasnt presented as a complex issue by leave campaigners. It was going to be the easiest trade deal in history. Brexit was backed by people who were never going to have to implement it.

So there was obviously a high interest
High interest does not equal high knowledge.

In addition to the £9 million spent by Cameron on booklets sent to every household in the UK in 2016

I had written that off as it was a commitment made prior to the Referendum, but please by all means add it to the tally of money wasted on Brexit.

There was high interest, doesn't mean people looked any further than their own prejudices.

Look at your own posts, factual errors all over the place, poor analysis of situations, repetition of rote learned points and then triumphal confirmation bias when you do find a source that backs you up.

I made one post about misinformation early on in the thread which was in response to mystery trying to claim democracy restored as a success.

Democracy preserved was my post. That the majority got what they voted for is democracy. If at a later date people think they made a mistake in their previous vote they can change their minds in a later vote.

As for misinformation both sides are guilty.

Remain said up to 800,000 jobs would be lost which never happened.

Leave said the £350 million UK gives to the EU every week could be given to the NHS instead. Not possible as UK does not give that amount to the EU.

Brexit was backed by people who were never going to have to implement it.

Does this count as a plus? The ball is now firmly in Johnson's court - the easy excuses about being thwarted by Remainers or May not being committed, have all fallen away.

It's an example of how much knowledge you would need to make a property informed decision on Brexit

Entitlement to vote is based on being over voting age and turning up at the polling station.

No remain said 800,000 jobs would go in the event of a severe shock, 500,000 jobs jn the event of a mild one.

Again, this was negated by the delay to article 50 and the BOE intervention. Had Cameron declared on the first day we would have left in 2018, the implications for business would have been far worse.

See wilfully not understanding the difference between and out right counterfactual lie which made an appeal to emotion and a prediction based on parameters is just annoying. Its like you are trying to be obtuse.

The treasury report did get lots of things right, higher inflation, the lower rate of growth, less investment etc etc.

Brexit was backed by people who were never going to have to implement it

As was every vote ever held. Electorate vote and government implements.

There was high interest, doesn't mean people looked any further than their own prejudices

People can vote for whatever reasons they choose. Prejudices included.

No it isn't mystery. Now that johnson is in office he will have to deliver. Farage was never anywhere near downing street. He can continue to complain from the sidelines.

MysteryTripAgain

Remain said up to 800,000 jobs would be lost which never happened.

Leave said the £350 million UK gives to the EU every week could be given to the NHS instead. Not possible as UK does not give that amount to the EU.

The difference between these two statements though is that one is a prediction so cannot be treated as fact, the other had real numbers that could be measured, falsely presented. It's like treating getting the weather forecast for tomorrow wrong and lying about yesterday's weather as the same degree of deceit.

Leave said the £350 million UK gives to the EU every week could be given to the NHS instead.

Why are you bothering to point this out - Remainers said that this was a lie at the time. A lie moreover enthusiastically backed by Johnson - no surprise there. The important point was it was what people believed to be true. One of the first questions Leavers should now be asking on Saturday is 'Where is the £350 million a week? At the fact that we will be in a transition so won't really have left, will to them be hair splitting.

I do wonder how Johnson will feel when the reality of no longer being 'at the top table' in Cameron's words, hits home. No say in the EU, no say in the US, no say in China. Australia, NZ and Canada not rushing to re-embrace Colonialism. Yes we know that one hard of thinking Brexit Party MEP has already had a whine about this.

Of course but it doesn't mean that their reasons were valid or that they cant3be critiqued.

Nor does it mean that that's when the discussions stop.

So mystery, please hold my hand and explain the good things, either that are happening or you think likely. We've had plenty of negatives from the doom mongers (or realists as I like to call them), so come on, back to the OP with some cheery tidings of country fortunes to come.

triumphal confirmation bias when you do find a source that backs you up

If what you said about Honda issuing PR press releases as opposed to facts it raises questions about trust does it not?

but you chose to believe the Honda press release rather than look at the broader picture, what Honda and the SSMT had been saying before the referendum, what they said they needed the relationship to look like etc etc. In the end Honda pulled the plug (intended) on making electric cars at Swindon because the risk was too high for thw investment. They made sounds about other reasons to not get bad headlines.

you picked up on the one thing that confirmed your bias and posted it here as evidence that you were right.

You weren't, again.

that one is a prediction so cannot be treated as fact

Please that you have acknowledged that remain campaign figures were not fact based.

They were based on predictions, and were stated as so.

You do know that right? There was no bus with 800,000 unemployed on the side?

What did leave predict right?

They made sounds about other reasons to not get bad headlines

ie they lied. Odd admission from someone who claims that leave was based on lies and remain was not.

Brexit was backed by people who were never going to have to implement it

Brexit was backed by key people, namely Johnson and Gove who thought they would never have to implement it. Followed by them for a delightful three years where they could blame everyone else. Well, now they have the mandate and now they have to get on with these 'easiest trade deals in history' done 'in an afternoon over a cup of tea'.

First decision, not Brexit related, but Huawei, shows how difficult they are, how competing demands have to be balanced. Next tricky decision due, HS2 - do we continue to throw good money after bad, either way, massive costs incurred already.

What did leave predict right

Remain numbers were scaremongering.

Of course but it doesn't mean that their reasons were valid or that they cant3be critiqued

Ballot papers don’t reasons to be given.

Nor does it mean that that's when the discussions stop

Brexit is happening. So discussions pointless until next election is announced.