How will we measure Brexit’s success or failure?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve been pondering this for ages now

In any ‘normal’ project you’d have targets, objectives, deadlines, reviews etc but for Brexit beyond 2 deadlines of 31/1/20 and 31/12/20 there’s nothing

People talk about politicians being accountable now but what do we expect them to deliver and by when

I certainly haven't whinged about the fact that its happening.

How can we measure success? By comparing the promised outcomes with the reality.

Simple.

Is there 350m more for the NHS for example?

And the voters lapped it up. You would no doubt call that 'healthy democracy', Mystery

It’s called freedom of choice. What people choose to believe or not believe what they see and hear in the media is their choice. You are not entitled to dictate what they do or not believe.

Measures of success - continue with FOM - people and trade, no interruptions to supply chain, no border issues in Ireland, remain with current employment and environmental protections - that’s for starters.

It might be freedom of choice but it's not a healthy democracy when politicians are pandering to newspaper owners. Politicians are public servants accountable to the public not a handful of newspaper proprietors.

But we can critique what people want to believe and why they believe it.

That is democracy too.

I told you what may successes would be - independent scotland and united Ireland.

Which only serves to demonstrate how one persons view of success is another persons failure

I’d see the break up of the UK as a failure not a success of Brexit

Right bear so brexit is going to be a clusterfuck unlikely to fully satisfy anyone. There will be so much upheaval suggestions of getting over it and stop whinging are naive. This is lull period, calm before the storm. it all kicks off again later in the year and certainly next year.

And I told you how I thought we should measure success, too, Bear.

Yes, you both have made the odd post about the actual tittle of the thread, outweighed about 20 to 1 with pointless ramblings about things that cannot be changed

You are not entitled to dictate what they do or not believe.
Nor have I ever sought to, Mystery .

Your 'pointless ramblings' are another person's 'discussions', Bear.

What is it with Brexit threads in particular that have the various OPs trying to dictate how people should post? It's ridiculous. If you don't like the 'pointless ramblings', don't respond to them.

Your ‘discussions’ are not on topic for the thread though

You and others are just using it as a place to vent as you don’t get interaction anywhere else - on account of the fact people are sick to death of hearing the same things over and over again

Oh Bear, why don't you stop bleating abut people not posting the way you want them to?

Politicians are public servants accountable to the public

Correct and they do so by honouring majority vote which was to leave the EU.

Right bear so brexit is going to be a clusterfuck unlikely to fully satisfy anyone

Another

I know better

Statement, but now with the addition of a crystal ball.

But we can critique what people want to believe and why they believe it

Remain have tried it for over three years, but the outcome is that UK is leaving the EU.

After two defeats Bellinsurge is correct. To re-run the same arguments that have resulted in two defeats will lead to a third defeat and so on.

Wouldnt need a crystal ball if leave campaigners had mapped out a plan. They only had 40 years. No reason to believe they cant pull something out their arses in 6 days.

I strongly suspect another year of blaming tbe EU for not giving us what we want; perhaps a little after that blaming the EU because we didn't get what we want but chickens will come home to roost soon enough.

They only had 40 years

Cameron announced in 2013 there would be a referendum if he was elected in 2015. He subsequently was elected 7 May 2015. Referendum was 23 June 2016, one year and 7 weeks later.

So where does 40 years come from?

However, it is correct to say that Cameron had no plan for a leave vote as he was certain the peasants would not dare think differently to himself. That was Labour and LibDem downfall. Like Cameron they too thought they could ignore how people voted.

Johnson’s plan to have all deals concluded by end of 2020 is optimistic. Makes me think he secretly wants a no deal and has set a short time frame to increase the chances of a no deal?

Euroscepticism has existed as long as the UK has been a member . UKIP were formed in the early 90s. The tabloids have been peddling anti eu rhetoric for decades.

Did the leave campaign stop after 1975 ? Did they stop after successive governments had being part of the EEC and EU and developing the relationship further as part of their manifestos?

Brexit is unlikely to satisfy everyone, especially the leave vote as there are lots of conflicting reasons for voting leave. Added to that is many of the suggested outcomes of the campaign "cake and eat it" for example are highly unfeasible.

No.

Oh Bear, why don't you stop bleating abut people not posting the way you want them to?

It would be preferable if those who don’t want to discuss the topic if the thread went elsewhere but clearly forum etiquette isn’t their strong point

I will disengage now and leave you to bleat in peace

If no one is fuelling your fires you’ll hopefully get bored soon enough

No deal would be absolute failure given that brexit was going to be "the easiest trade deal in human history". Or decided in an afternoon over tea as I believe another brexiteer suggested.

In this country the left arent allowed to spend tax payers but the right can piss billions up the wall on brexit, no questions asked.

Not just this country. (I should make it clear that I'm not in favour of pissing away taxpayers' money on anything unless there is a good investment case for it).

In fact one of the main things the leave campaign did was not to present a version of how a UK outside of the EU would look. This allowed them to bring a broad church of grievances under one belt without bringing conflicting objectives into question.

Had they proposed the Minford version of what leave would look like from the start then they wouldn't have won as many votes in rural or manufacturing areas.