The Brexit Arms: Are We Nearly There Yet? 🇬🇧🚗↩️🇪🇺

[SingingLily]

No, not yet, but soon. Just 24 more sleeps until we legally leave the EU at 11pm on 31 January and finally enter the transition period after what seems like centuries of argument, dither and delay. We do so with hope, optimism and a determination to be a good friend and neighbour to the EU, but for now, no one said it better than Winston Churchill.

“This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”

The Pub Rule is the same as it always was: all welcome but only if you leave goadery outside. The first drink is on the house.

I think she suffers from much the same condition as the rest of the shadow frontbench contenders, Walking. If they say they were loyal to Jezza, people who rejected his leadership at the GE will ask Why? And if they say they didn't agree with at least some of the things he said or did, the same people will ask Why Stay Then? Either way, he's tarnished and they are tarnished by association. That's not entirely fair - no one should be wholly written off because of that - but it's human nature.

The thing that interests me is that although Boris writes well (he always uses at least three words I've never encountered before and so it expands my vocabulary) he is not a great orator. If Labour could find a leader who speaks well, persuasively and with skill, that person could probably run rings around Boris at PMQs.

I can't think of anyone right now though.

“There's just no need for pp on here to get so aggressive and try to chase others off the thread because they're afraid to be disagreed with”

yes singinglily and what we need - with the Tories majority - is an opposition to hold them to account, so that they can't just ride roughshod in the interests of making the rich richer.

But where will that come from??

it is a brexit supporters thread

Nope.

And if I was a Brexiteer I wouldn't hide, I would want to persuade everyone to the benefits of my cause

Eh.....the battle is over.
Brexit is happening in a couple of weeks.
We don’t have to persuade anyone.

Found a whole hour of Laurence Fox talking about tolerance of opposing views. For any fellow Hathaway fans.

Guess this means the BBC knew exactly who they booked for QT last night. Very much a recalibration.

well to be fair niceguyneddie it IS a Brexit supporters thread, it says quite clearly in the intro and has done for a while.

I think it would be polite to pull up a chair, listen, argue the points you want to argue, rather than argue about the rules of engagement on MN?

That's why I'm here, there are good people on here who have their convictions and although I dont necessarily agree I'm trying to listen along with a glass of or 4.

To say it's not a thread for Brexit supporters seems uneccessarily (cant spell) aggressive to me.

Very difficult to persuade people of anything generally and of unknown negotiable intangibles even more so.

yes singinglily and what we need - with the Tories majority - is an opposition to hold them to account, so that they can't just ride roughshod...

...over anything.

Yes, Yolo, this is something you and I absolutely agree on. I want a democracy and not of the "guided" sort, which is the risk if we don't have a credible opposition very soon.

The most persuasive speakers that I can think of are on the backbenches: Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper. I don't like the way in which they tried to subvert the referendum result but putting that to one side, I recognise that both are able to build cross-party support and both ask the sort of intelligent questions that need to be asked. They can command the attention of the House in both sides. Sadly, neither are in tune with the views of the current Labour membership. For that reason, I've long been of the opinion that Labour needs an immediate leader who will clear out the hard left and then after that, a unifying leader who can appeal to a wider electorate than just the membership.

Of the current contenders, I think only Lisa Nandy gets it but that's why she won't be elected. And if she was, she'd be ripped to shreds by her own side.

Have been reading along without posting much recently. This thread provided a welcome refuge in which to discuss politics and policies without being accused of bigotry, racism, or fascism (or all of the above, and more). Stupid, ill-informed, old... I have been guilty of all those at times, and when I have learned otherwise, my opinions have been moderated or even changed. Except about my age....

English wine is improving rapidly, especially the fizz. That might be better technique, different grapes, or climate change though. I do hope that European wine doesn't disappear from our supermarket shelves on February 1st.

The thing that interests me is that although Boris writes well (he always uses at least three words I've never encountered before and so it expands my vocabulary) he is not a great orator. If Labour could find a leader who speaks well, persuasively and with skill, that person could probably run rings around Boris at PMQs

I agree. The bit that disappointments me about the Labour candidates is that they all seem to be afraid to upset momentum. I can understand why. Its almost like they are all constrained in what they say and its hard to tell who could actually be a leader.

Boris is not a 'great orator' but he is an interesting speaker, a funny speaker, a charismatic speaker, an inspiring speaker, comfortable in the role, comfortable as a leader, a spontaneous speaker (all the things needed to get Brexit done)... he might not be Churchill yet, but is Starmer or Wrong-Bailey even in the same league?

Very difficult to persuade people of anything generally
Up to a point, but a sizeable contingent of people have been persuaded that Brexit will be 'done' on 31st January, when it will be far from the case. I do broadly agree that once people have decided something, they can't be 'persuaded' away from their beliefs. It's confirmation bias, isn't it? Like only drinking in a make believe pub where people will agree with you and bolster your view that you're right/ have won something (but what?) etc.
TBF, I will only be 'persuaded' from my own stance when I see clear evidence of the sunny uplands being delivered or - at the very least - that my life, and that of my many EU colleagues, is not getting any worse than it is.

very well put yolofish

it IS a Brexit supporters thread, it says quite clearly in the intro and has done for a while

In practice its only a Brexit supporters' thread insofar as they can see off any dissenters.

It's a thread on a public parenting website, it doesn't belong to any one group.

That said I am all in favour of robust but polite debate. There is not much point in arguing over whether Brexit will happen now. Phase 1 is over, we move onto phase 2 in which the people who wanted this are held to account (I'm talking about politicians here not private individuals).

Musical interlude, blame Arkadas

One lovely thing about this thread is that its remarkable free from fans of Jezza, thank goodness

@AutumnRose1
I had more racist remarks hurled at me in the street in the weekend after the Brexit vote than the rest of my life put together.

I didn’t say anything. But this time I’m going to approach those people and tell them I voted for Brexit and have the conversation. This is actually something I decided after talking to my 81 year old mother. She feels strongly that non white Brexiteers need to stand up and be counted but admittedly she doesn’t have a job to lose.

What does this even mean? What are you hoping to achieve by telling them you voted for Brexit? Is it that you think it'll placate them? That you're all on the same side so they don't need to be racist towards you?

Until recently I thought Hilary Benn would make the best leader of the Labour Party. He gave such a good speech some time ago about sending air craft to Syria (or was it Iraq )
All sides applauded him. He is a natural orator.
Sadly he tried to stop Brexit with his surrender bill. But he is not a fan of Jezza or momentum so would not get elected anyway.
He would be good at the dispatch box and I think he would bring the voters back to labour (unfortunately).
I am fully in support of the Tory government but I think we desperately need a good opposition.

Ken ah, yes, we’ve met before.

Tbh I cba explaining myself to you.

Does anyone know why people keep spelling Laurence Fox as Lawrence? Am I seeing things or is it one of those passive aggressive things to piss him off?

“Today 18:35 ListeningQuietly

One lovely thing about this thread is that its remarkable free from fans of Jezza, thank goodness”

😂😂😂 high five! 🤚

@DustyDiamond
I don't think my family are the only racists who will be celebrating Brexit. They won this battle and are happy the country is moving in their direction.
Britain First won.
EDL won.
BNP won.
National Action won.
Tommy Robinson won.
Jayde Fransen won.
I expect lots of them will be having parties to celebrate, maybe some of them will even be in Parliament Square at Nigel Farage's party. Happy days for them.

I don't think there's a single regular on this thread that has any love for Jezza 😂

He is perhaps the secret weapon that can bring the two sides together in common cause...!

Don't @ me btw Ken

I'm not remotely interested in anything you have to say

I'm not remotely interested in anything you have to say

Hear hear.

“I'm not remotely interested in anything you have to say“