The Brexit Arms: Are We Nearly There Yet? 🇬🇧🚗↩️🇪🇺

[SingingLily]

No, not yet, but soon. Just 24 more sleeps until we legally leave the EU at 11pm on 31 January and finally enter the transition period after what seems like centuries of argument, dither and delay. We do so with hope, optimism and a determination to be a good friend and neighbour to the EU, but for now, no one said it better than Winston Churchill.

“This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”

The Pub Rule is the same as it always was: all welcome but only if you leave goadery outside. The first drink is on the house.

DustyDiamond No @
I'm not remotely interested in anything you have to say

I know you're not.
I am however very interested in what you have to say, that's why I follow these threads. I also follow Leave EU, did follow Vote Leave, I follow all the main political parties and lots of well known politicians. I don't want to live in an echo chamber and want to see and hear a whole range of views, even those I couldn't disagree with more.

I sould have added, I don't just want to see/hear other opinions, I also want to really think about them.

TBH I've never pretended to be other than a Remainer
but at this stage where the Brexiters are only a few days from winning
I find it sad that they all want to scroll on by my posts
rather than articulate what they have won

I genuinely think I'd find it easier to accept if I knew what I was fighting next

And on that note,
Gotta love a bit of the late great Derek Foulds

He is perhaps the secret weapon that can bring the two sides together in common cause...!
Becca Wrong-Bailey is about to take over from him.

If Wrong Dailey gets in Boris will definitely get another 5 years. I bet he has joined as a supporter and will vote for her.

As someone who voted to stay in in 1975, and to leave in 2016 albeit at the very last moment, and only after consulting then 17yoDS, it was all about controlling the direction of travel going forward but I could well have been in the 4% between the two camps.

I thought the referendum should have been held after Maastricht, and again after Lisbon, but it wasn't ever called. I thought the EC was unconditionally a positive step in the right direction in 1975, ending wars in Europe etc. Since I was 19 (now 64) I have watched the bureaucrats (in Westminster as well as Brussels) become ever-more ossified in rules and red tape, running a land grab over ever-widening aspects of life, rendering decision-making sclerotic and ever-more distant from the population. At quite ridiculous expense by the way. Why do MEPs need to earn more than the UK PM?

I also lived in the USA for several years, and learned that much of American politics still happens at state level, so the argument that "the decision needs to apply across Europe" is risible. If NYC levies sales tax at 10% and NJ at 8%, then you can decide where you shop.

Regarding the stealth takeover of the NHS by US healthcare interests threatened so often on some threads... I don't think so. It's not even close to an objective because NHS margins are so tightly controlled on drug purchasing, most companies wouldn't make the short list. (In the US, I worked for a non-profit pension and insurance company, and wrote major medical policy documents for them, at a very junior level).

IMVHO, most policy decisions are best taken very close to the population who will have to live with the consequences and pay the bills. No arguments from me if Scotland and Wales secede and run things better but I don't expect to be asked to foot the bill or even to subsidise the costs.

IMVHO, most policy decisions are best taken very close to the population who will have to live with the consequences and pay the bills.

I think that's not incompatible with the EU as it works today. Every law that is voted through is debated at the EU council, at the commission and then in Parliament (which is elected by us). So that means only laws/directives (same thing) that reflect a proper consensus get passed. In fact they tend to be quite generic in their wording and implementation at local/national level may vary because it gets adapted slightly. However there is a common basis on which every member agrees. It's always meant to make cooperation between member easier in all key areas.
I mean, it's complex in practice and I can't pretend to completely grasp the intricacies but I don't see a democratic deficit here.

IMVHO, most policy decisions are best taken very close to the population who will have to live with the consequences and pay the bills.
Indeed.
The UK is the most centralised country in the EU.
UK councils cannot raise local revenues, they can raise price per house by only 2% even if locals would be happy with more
UK local areas cannot control transport, waste or energy
so the regions get neglected under Treasury habits that favour London.

Will Brexit make that better ?

Inevitably complex when a group is trying to regulate standards, law and practice across such a geographically, linguistically and culturally diverse territory. There was, around 1992, much talk of subsidiarity which was explained as making decisions close to the population. I am not saying that decision making IS remote, just that many people FEEL that it is, and therefore PERCEIVE a democratic deficit.

I find it sad that they all want to scroll on by my posts

ListeningQuietly, you know why I scroll on by your posts. There's no need for me to go into the details.

What you said was in the immediate aftermath of Jeremy Corbyn's interview by Andrew Neil, and the distinct impression I got, was that you were absolutely determined to go to any lengths - any lengths - to secure his success. Now you say that you are glad to find this is a JC-free zone.

I find that quite confusing.

If you are here in the sincere spirit of reconciliation and a genuine desire to understand, could you please explain why the change of mind?

You absolutely don't have to, of course. But if you do, I will in turn put aside my perception of you and listen - properly and carefully and respectfully listen - to you.

Over to you.

Singing
I'm not sure what you thought I said after Cobyn / Neill
link please
as the Westminterenders will be able to confirm that I first thought he was a wazzock even before the referendum.
In fact if you search those threads you'll find that I think Corbyn's a 1970's Tory mole.

Johnson is a twat
but his crapness has been utterly enabled by an utterly shite opposition leader

its depressing that the true debates about the objectives of Brexit have taken place on this board rather than in the HoC

I genuinely think that between us we could hold all and any politician to account as we have explored the issues and consequences far better than the over renumerated public school boys.

Sad times
but if we re going to move forwards, we have to have clear goals
surely ?

It's a thread on a public parenting website, it doesn't belong to any one group.

Exactly. So although you think you're being a peace-maker yolofish it's really not required. I'm not interested in making trouble, i'm only picking up on what people are putting down.

If they don't want to engage that's their prerogative, but I can't stand bullies.

“If they don't want to engage that's their prerogative, but I can't stand bullies.”

Not ignoring you Lily, but the centralisation of power at Westminster has made life more difficult for regions outwith the Southeast where people (generally) earn less and are a bit less politically engaged. Cities, by virtue of their population density and economic momentum, exert more influence on political debate than rural areas. They are also more extreme (poverty v wealth gaps are more visible between Tower Hamlets and South Kensington than between Truro and Redruth-Camborne... despite similar separation distance and travel times). The levels of economic activity are so different, it's hard to believe they're in the same country, let alone the same county or city.

Whoa! I thought the face was only used by the persona non grata?

ListeningQuietly, it was the "three weeks to do a...." post.

It was deleted, as you well know. In fact, it was the subject of mass reporting. MNHQ made that clear. So to ask for a link looks disingenuous.

Now that I've jogged your memory, I am willing to listen carefully and respectfully to your answer.

Still over to you.

Epic I put a lovely song on, come dance with me and forget the...people who don’t want to dance with us. 💃

Brexit is happening in a couple of weeks.
We don’t have to persuade anyone

You might not but Boris and Co do. They're supposedly on a mission to bring the country together and prove what a fantastic opportunity Brexit is. So far they've done bugger all but obviously it's early days, people are still in hibernation.

It was deleted, as you well know. In fact, it was the subject of mass reporting. MNHQ made that clear. So to ask for a link looks disingenuous.
News to me. I rarely access my email account

Are you accusing me of being a Corbynite ?

Lily argh. I don’t remember posters but I remember that post, I recoiled so fast, I thought I’d get whiplash.

Now that’s a fair reason for an ignore button.

singinglily
could you time stamp this famous post of mine (I know its gone) but its removal will show
as I genuinely do not remember posting anything consequential about Corbyn / Neill

You can still get the Xmas one if you want..

NiceGuy I wonder if is as triggering as ? I think we should be told.

The glitterball is the one to dodge here.

singinglily, could you time stamp this famous post of mine (I know its gone) but its removal will show
as I genuinely do not remember posting anything consequential about Corbyn / Neill

I see.

I think we are done here.