The Brexit Arms: Are We Nearly There Yet? 🇬🇧🚗↩️🇪🇺

[SingingLily]

No, not yet, but soon. Just 24 more sleeps until we legally leave the EU at 11pm on 31 January and finally enter the transition period after what seems like centuries of argument, dither and delay. We do so with hope, optimism and a determination to be a good friend and neighbour to the EU, but for now, no one said it better than Winston Churchill.

“This is not the end, this is not even the beginning of the end, this is just perhaps the end of the beginning.”

The Pub Rule is the same as it always was: all welcome but only if you leave goadery outside. The first drink is on the house.

[Limitedsimba123]

So do you think divergence is what is best for the country then Walking?

[Bearbehind]

And yet we still voted for them. So plenty of people have confidence that they will do the best for the UK.

I don’t agree that people are confident that MPs will do their best at all

The trouble is there’s no other choice.

You can only vote for those who stand

[howabout]

Excuse to post a fantastic long form analysis from a couple of days back.

"Representing Johnson’s government as neoliberalism in populist clothing misses the regime shift that is taking place. Horror at the spectre of “Singapore-on-Thames” is a sign of ignorance and confusion. Singapore is far from being an untrammelled market economy. Land is the property of the state, and around 80 per cent of the island’s housing supplied by a government corporation. A highly effective civil service is engaged with companies and active throughout society. Singapore is a success story of managed capitalism, not the free market.

A Singaporean model cannot be transplanted here. Britain is a large, multinational, unevenly developed country, not a city state (though London now resembles one). But Johnson will need something like Singapore-style government if he is to keep his working-class voters on board. Dominic Cummings’s proposals for renovating the state machine reflect this fact.

How hard Brexit will be remains to be seen. Immediately after the election great minds in the City were convinced that Johnson’s large majority would mean him pivoting to a softer exit. That seems highly unlikely. Britain can remain engaged and even friendly with Europe in many areas without being locked into the sclerotic institutions of the EU. Excitable talk about another cliff edge is also inaccurate.

Johnson’s withdrawal deal removes the most disruptive risks of Brexit, and neither the UK nor the EU wants to reach the end of this year without some kind of understanding on trade. A bare-bones agreement is possible and even likely, whatever Brussels may say publicly. All the signs are that Johnson aims to keep the option of the UK diverging from EU rules. Progressives will seethe at the prospect, since it could mean further deregulation. But diverging from the EU also enables government to act in ways that are currently prohibited, such as providing state aid for industry. The EU has long been a neoliberal construction, whereas a hardish Brexit allows a more interventionist mode of capitalism."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/01/why-left-keeps-losing

[dirtyrottenscoundrel]

Bearbehind

It was me who said there won’t be much to talk about after 31st, but that’s just my opinion.
Clearly, people can chat about Brexit for the next 20 years, but I personally think it’ll get boring.
It was exciting not really knowing if we were ever going to leave, so many remainers wanted to overturn the will of the people & crush democracy - I couldn’t quite believe what I was seeing.
But thankfully all the marches, petitions, court orders and god knows what else got remainers absolutely nowhere.
We are leaving.
The labour leadership race will take over the chat on here, & quite honestly I couldn’t give a toss who becomes labour leader.

For me, these threads were about the run up to leaving, once we’ve left it will all feel a bit flat. Plus the remainers who visit this thread ( with a few exceptions ) do nothing for me, so why stick around to read their shite?

But I do know that many leavers want to continue chatting so that’s great!

[time4chocolate]

I have never got the whole Singapore-on-Thames thing, it couldn’t and wouldn’t work over here.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a bare bones agreement already drafted.

[Bearbehind]

dirty I appreciate you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, it’s just I simply don’t understand it

If you honestly think everything after 31st is ‘boring’ that implies Brexit is purely symbolic for you and it was only ever about being able to say we’ve left

It’s pretty frustrating that the are Leavers who still haven’t realised that
the real hard work starts on 1st Feb

[Coppersulphate]

Bear, first of all I did not donate £500,000. Nearly, but not quite.
It is my taxed paid money so I will choose how I spend it. And as long as it is legal what is your problem?

You may well think it is madness, and you may be right. But I don't care.

If I want to celebrate our legally leaving the EU then I will. As I said earlier my village is having a party.

I bet you would not be criticising FPTP if Jezbollah had won.

[Bearbehind]

PMSL - I voted Tory because I despise JC even more than BJ - keep up!

[SingingLily]

Just popping in briefly before I start the dinner.

Found this, which might or might not amuse you.

[DuckWillow]

I think everyone needs to calm down. I voted Remain as I don’t like the unknown and didn’t have enough evidence to convince me to vote Leave.
However it is what it is.

Will it be brilliant and problem free...no of course it won’t and I think parties and getting Big Ben to strike are a bit....pathetic tbh, We have people going hungry in this country and we want to raise £500.000 to get Big Ben striking. Warped sense of priorities there.

On the other hand I don’t expect our exit to be the shambles some Leavers are suggesting either. So much hysteria about it all.

It will be neither the panacea some think nor the horrific doomsday others say.

[Bearbehind]

It will be neither the panacea some think nor the horrific doomsday others say.

Agreed - it seems to me it’s just going to be a lot of time and money for not very much

[TheGhostOfEpicPast]

Ha! Love it Lily! 😂👏

[SingingLily]

Thank you, Epic. Here's another one, but I think I might have reached my limit for today.

[Coppersulphate]

Thanks Lily. Love the cartoon.

[SingingLily]

Thanks Copper, but I seem to have lost the caption which was meant to read, "Yeah, I know, but we get all sorts in here".

[DustyDiamond]

Lol Lily 😂

The only 🦇 that ever did it for me was #Dmitris Batsignal to Brexiters 😍😍

[SingingLily]

He's such an effective communicator, Dusty. I wish I could #BeMoreDmitri.

[TheGhostOfEpicPast]

#bemoredmitri a positive mantra for the new era!

[frumpety]

The labour leadership race will take over the chat on here, & quite honestly I couldn’t give a toss who becomes labour leader.

To be honest , it doesn't matter who becomes the next Labour leader, it could be my cat and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to how Brexit plays out.
This is entirely down to the Conservatives now. What happens next will be entirely of their making due to their stonking majority, they are in charge, they alone are responsible for the outcome.

[Miljea]

frumpery that's so true. There are some who believe Labour deliberately threw the election so as to bear no responsibility for the 'outcome' in of Brexit.

The Tory plans for the 'up levelling' of the North is admirable. A little 'late to the party' given they've had 10 years to effect a stab at some sort of equality, but heigh ho.

However, it's great that they can now 'go in', all guns blazing, now that 'Brexit's done', in a couple of weeks.

Hurrah.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

Agreed - it seems to me it’s just going to be a lot of time and money for not very much
I can see why you would say that and on one level I would agree. But to a lot of people, even if not very much changes, it means a lot and it is worth it.
Whether or not I live in a friends house, that I get on with, or in my own house probably makes very little difference to my day to day life. But working double shifts so I can own my own house means the world to me.
Their might not be much difference between the EU and UK but I will always prefer to have an independent country where British people decide what colour we paint the walls (even if we cant afford the expensive brands).

[XingMing]

I was about to ask "have you been to Singapore?" Ever? Recently? It's a place that works. Mass transit transportation is good, efficient and cheap. Social housing is dense and high rise, but available. I have never seen homeless people on the street. There are jobs, and no obvious encampments of homeless people. It's not tolerant of chewing gum, or idleness, but I don't know about MH issues. Elderly ladies supplement their pensions in the food markets by selling you small packs of tissues, because the stalls don't have napkins. But you can eat the food everywhere without fear of food poisoning because the hygiene inspectors can close down anything that looks nasty instantly. But everyone seems to need specs, and education sticks close to the 3Rs and STEM, so there's only a nascent artistic culture. The food is wonderful.

[Bearbehind]

walking you’ve highlighted yourself the problem though

In your analogy you can say at then end of it that you own your own house

With Brexit you can’t say what you’ll have at the end of it and you know you won’t be able to have the best, which you currently can.

That’s exactly the problem - you could chose to paint the walls any colour but you actually won’t because you’re happy with what you have

Anyway, the time for analogies is long gone

We should be into the concrete tangible benefits of Brexit and they continue to be sadly lacking

[XingMing]

But above all else, Singapore idolises self-starting entrepreneurs, whether it's a car wash or a food stall or a fintech business. The Chinese (and it's very Chinese) revere work, and don't have much tolerance for anyone who doesn't make an effort.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

We should be into the concrete tangible benefits of Brexit
Well I for one am looking forward to a good trade deal with America, and every other country in the world. And no that doesn't mean I in any way support Trump.
But its all going to take time, you can't just stamp your feet shouting "are we there yet".
Yes we should have spend the past 3 1/2 years discussing the benefits but the EU and remainers refused to do so hoping that it could all be stopped.