Any other remainers planning to leave?

[BananaBlaps]

We’re lucky as DH can apply for Australian citizenship. Feeling so angry about the state of the county upping sticks seems like an extreme but satisfying plan!

Having an insurance model also undermine trust in medical professionals.
Scaryteacher - No, it doesn't.

You're right, it doesn't on the whole.

But it should.

The insurance model as it works in the US is the one the UK is going to have inflicted on it. The insurance model means that doctors, surgeons and other medical professionals have to get permission from insurance companies before going ahead with procedures or courses of treatment. The insurance companies' aim is to keep costs of each individual treatment as low as possible. They are not thinking in terms of effect on the patient ten years down the road and how much that will cost in either monetary terms or the physical effect. Short termism is the name of the insurance company game.

The way the system works is a doctor, for instance my late FIL, educated for both undergrad and medical school in Ivy League schools, and with thirty solid years as a surgeon under his belt, found himself argung the benefits of his planned approach to a brain tumour with a physicians' assistant, basically a glorified nurse, who could have got into nursing by way of an associates degree community college. There are standardised procedure manuals compiled by insurance companies, and departure from the protocols in these manuals requires so much arguing and pleading that many surgeons find themselves running out of hours in a day.

Nearly all the british people I have spoken to have citizenship and no desire to move back.

I there now and love it. However, I know several people/families that have recently moved back to the UK.

It's obviously not for everybody, not long term anyway.

Something I didn't know about Australia: "There are random fruit shortages."

"Because the vast island country has been isolated for so long, its produce hasn’t developed as good of an immune system as our overexposed crops have.No fruit and veg is imported due to the risk of infecting local produce, meaning that when outbreaks do happen, the price of fruit can be pushed up to truly extortionate prices–I was once charged $8 (£4.50) for a banana."

"A high proportion of the population - around 50% - has private [health] insurance."

"Australia boasts universal public healthcare"...

"However, the government is active in trying to persuade anyone who earns enough to take out private policies on top of their state coverage to relieve pressure on the public system."

"There are three basic types of private insurance: hospital insurance, ‘extras’ and ambulance insurance."

"Ambulance insurance is exactly what it sounds like - emergency vehicles aren’t covered by Medicare, although some state governments do pay for this."

transferwise.com/gb/blog/healthcare-system-in-australia

2018 "A good Samaritan in Melbourne who called an ambulance for an injured man on Thursday spoke out about being chased by debt collectors seeking payment for the call-out."

"A survey by finder.com.au last year found almost 25 per cent of Australians wrongly believed the service was covered by Medicare."

"In states other than Queensland and Tasmania, ambulance services are covered either by private health insurance or are out of pocket."

www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-20/ambulance-fees-around-australia/10015172

Bizarre school funding in Australia - no wonder private school fees are cheaper than the UK:

"The outrage is fair enough: in 2018 independent schools received 42% of their funding from the government."

"Under the Morrison government, private schools will receive $181.6 billion of federal funding over the next 10 years, compared to public education’s $128.8 billion."

"Perhaps most shocking is the fact that a public school student gained $155 of public funding over the last decade while a private school student gained $1429 of public funds."

www.crikey.com.au/2019/06/19/public-school-funding-classrooms/

Bizarre school funding in Australia

Outside the U.K. I don't think it's unusual for governments to participate in funding "private" schools, usually on the basis that the schools operate under some sort of contract with the state eg the "sous-contrat" (usually Catholic) schools in France which typically charge fees of around €100/month.

Of course the U.K. also does this with its religious and "free" schools - we just don't call them "private" and parental financial contributions are more opaque.

I don't know about Australia specifically but a quick google suggests that the "non-government" sector spans a huge range from nominally private but mainly publicly-funded schools in deprived areas, to very expensive schools in big cities.

Also, totally weird to post on this thread slagging off Australia because it has the temerity to do things differently (and to want the skilled young people that the U.K. apparently thinks are superfluous to requirements) - while elsewhere bigging up the potential for UK-Australia trade .

It's a bit like Brexiters slagging off the EU while telling everyone what a great deal we'll get - and forgetting that everyone in EU politics can and does read English-language media.

I suspect many more British people would have voted Remain if the truth about healthcare in Britain post-NHS (as described by Clavinova) had been fully appreciated.

Thank you Clavinova for that eye opener.

chatongris
Also, totally weird to post on this thread slagging off Australia because it has the temerity to do things differently

Apart from "Bizarre school funding in Australia" I've been factual and/or linked to Australian media sources.
"Something I didn't know about Australia" is hardly offensive either.

How odd that I should be talking about Australia - the op says she is thinking of emigrating to - wait for it - Australia!

a quick google suggests that the "non-government" sector spans a huge range from nominally private but mainly publicly-funded schools in deprived areas, to very expensive schools in big cities.

Parents in deprived areas pay reduced school fees - only 100 dollars a month?

mathanxiety
I suspect many more British people would have voted Remain if the truth about healthcare in Britain post-NHS (as described by Clavinova)

Difficult call - pp who lives in Australia;
"The public services including health care, are great."

It was me who said that the public services in australia are great. I stand by that. Although I must qualify it as the services that I use and observe as a working mother in a family.

My daughter goes to a public school, which is excellent. The streets where we live are clean and swept regularly. The leisure, library, roads, infrastructure maintenance, etc are all very good. I do pay for a health fund (it is not health insurance - there is a big difference), but have never actually had to use it. I can get a doctor's appointment on the same day (I have rocked up twice to the doctor's at 7 am with dd before school and had to wait a maximum of 10 minutes). I have had two operations on medicare (equivalent to the NHS).

Yes, we do have to contribute to school fees. Yes, I do pay towards the health fund (80 pounds a month and includes ambulance costs). But here is the really important difference. Australia pays higher wages for lower skilled and public service jobs than the UK. People on the whole have more disposable income. In the UK, there would be no hope of me and DH paying for health insurance or contributing to the school easily. But as I said previously, we get paid DOUBLE here. We live a low cost lifestyle by choice (the weather helps!), save about a 1000 pounds a month, fly to the UK once a year on holiday and still happily contribute to health/school. And why not? I get paid more than some people, income tax clearly isn't working to help some.

I am not trying to paint Australia as a utopia, but the honest and clear truth is that our quality of life - in terms of work, finances and generally environment - is much higher than in the uk.

BTW, the school contributions in total are probably about a couple of hundred pounds a year - not $100 a month (that is pure bollocks) - and they are optional.

Whowants salaries in Canada also much higher than the UK - nurses I know over there were horrified by NHS nursing salaries. They get paid $60-100k (£40-70k), compared with £20-40k here. And housing costs are much cheaper, for far bigger places, as soon as you get outside of major cities like Toronto and Vancouver (Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal, Halifax etc are all very affordable, and smaller places in Ontario like Waterloo, Kingston or London are crazy cheap by SE England standards). Public schools are generally good, though significantly less so in indigenous/deprived areas, there’s definitely a classism/funding differential.

Health costs are higher, but people expect to pay more and usually budget for it. Overall, people in pretty average WC jobs can expect a decent standard of living with home ownership, two cars and a reasonable summer holiday in reach for most families. There is certainly deprivation (and pretty much zero safety net if you aren’t working), but it’s not as widespread as I see over here.

All the above sounds really super, or not maybe, but rather than debating the merits of various countries - who here, other than those that haven't already left the UK, are really going to Leave the UK because of Brexit?

I appreciate that many here might wish too, but how many here really can, and how many actually will?

The people who will leave will be younger people with skills - the sort of people who voted remain and who feel that Brexit is limiting their prospects.

If these people are in occupations where there are skills shortages (highly likely) this will have an impact, especially if Brexit makes it harder or less attractive for people from other countries to immigrate.

This should all be completely obvious and non-controversial, given that the Brexit vote was mainly about reducing immigration and Brexiters have spent four years telling people they disagree with to "just leave if you don't like it".

Clavinova: what was bizarre about your comment was a complete failure to understand that different education funding models aren't necessarily strange just because they don't ressemble the U.K. funding model. The difference is largely one of terminology: in U.K. education circles, "private" refers exclusively to privately funded schools. In many other countries, "private" refers to schools which are not run by the government (but which may receive government funding). By this definition of "private", UK religious, academy and free schools are all "private" (ie not government-run) even though they are mainly government-funded.

I've already left but I don't think I'll ever come back to the uk.

I always said that I'd come back and move back to Northumberland it was kind of my retirement dream. But after the Brexit vote and this general election I realise that I'm not the person I thought I was. I've always associated and been proud of being Northern and a socialist whereas now the North has changed but I haven't. Since the GE I've felt disconnected and actually a little adrift as if there isn't a place for me in the world.

Because the vast island country has been isolated for so long, its produce hasn’t developed as good of an immune system. No fruit and veg is imported due to the risk of infecting local produce

I just must comment on this utter piece of bollocks! 'The produce' grown is still the fruit and veg we eat in the UK, introduced by settlers originally, and Australia regularly imports fruit and veg as well, mainly from China, New Zealand and the US.

I was so annoyed I omitted the link.

esriau.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=b3f93da86d8b4d38b3c8b3413717971c&webmap=65783e3306b0402a80c638f2cccef71d

Just for clarity, Britain has a points based immigration system and has had for years. It's easier to get into Australia than it is to get into the UK under our points based system.

In response to the OP (I got diverted into the discussion about Australia). My brother is thinking of moving to Canada as he is worried about the effect on his industry. We live in Australia but are moving back to another european country before the freedom of movement ends at the end of next year.

I suspect many more British people would have voted Remain if the truth about healthcare in Britain post-NHS (as described by Clavinova)

Indeed so - a staunch Brexit supporting relative, realised that she preferred having an NHS to Brexit. How many more were like her?

The people who will leave have left will be younger people with skills - the sort of people who voted remain and who feel that Brexit is limiting their prospects.

Like my DD, DS and Nephew, you mean? All graduates with a number of years work experience.

I suspect many more British people would have voted Remain if the truth about healthcare in Britain post-NHS (as described by Clavinova)

And if they had known that, contrary to what several people in the Leave campaigns stated re: the possibility of a Norway option, that Brexit meant not being part of the single market maybe even more would have voted Remain?

We are leaving the UK. I’ve been here since I was five (Belgian) and DH since he was 21 (Canadian). Our DT’s were born here and have Canadian passports. They are at Uni but either are planning on working in the UK after they graduate.

We are probably moving to Canada - DH is a doctor and entitled to work there and I can get a transfer with my employer. It’s not something we pre Brexit planned on doing and I’m not happy about being further away from my parents and DSis who returned to Belgium. DH is a GP and working for the NHS is killing him. It’s taking longer than planned for him to leave as there isn’t any one who wants to take on his practice as there is such a shortage of GP’s. Unfortunately it will mean 000’s of patients needing to find another doctor. On the plus side it means we’ll still be in the UK whilst DT’s finish Uni. The UK is no longer, in my opinion, a good place to live particularly if you have a ‘foreign’ accent.

Will your dcs have to pay back their student loan?

I love England. Can't imagine living anywhere else, although I did dally with retiring to France at one time. I love the countryside and the seasons, and the humour of the people. I love travelling, but feel at home here. I think as you get older you realise that everywhere has its problems and people are similar, good and bad, wherever you go.

We have considered New Zealand but it would be a huge gamble and salaries seem lower than what we earn currently.

Also looking into Irish citizenship. Sadly my df is no longer with us and my dm didn't name him on the birth certificate so not sure how easy that will be ☹️

I've always wanted the opportunity to live in another country but as you get older (late 40s) the opportunities are fewer.

even my Remain, Labour voting mum trotted out a trope about immigrants being housed ahead of locals when she was visiting over Christmas. What can you do? We didn't argue about it although I did say I thought it wasn't true, and in the end she said it was probably refugees. Well as we only take about 10 a year, that isn't having much of an impact on housing problems.

Agree with you PP. Having worked alongside refugee programmes, there is a real focus on housing refugees in private rental as opposed to council properties, because we know that to provide council housing would lead to claims just as you describe. A sad world we live in given the absolutely horrific backgrounds of some.