Any other remainers planning to leave?

[BananaBlaps]

We’re lucky as DH can apply for Australian citizenship. Feeling so angry about the state of the county upping sticks seems like an extreme but satisfying plan!

It's a shame that in all conversations about health in the U.K., people talk as if the only available models are the NHS or the US.

It's possible to have good quality public healthcare with good access to treatment for people of all income levels without spending nearly 20% of GDP on a system with huge gaps in care and coverage (the US system) and without offering care that is 100% free at the point of treatment (the NHS).

Many European social insurance systems offer better outcomes than the NHS and are much cheaper than the US system. The difference between the best European social insurance systems (Netherlands, France, Germany) and the NHS is mainly that they are better funded and that private sector involvement is less rapacious - less public money going to the likes of Virgin Health shareholders, and more going to small and often very efficient private service providers.

chat

I think as hard as it is we may have to move in that direction

However Brexit brings us closer to America and further away from Europe- making a US style system seem more likely than a European one... especially given trade talks

Will we at least have an easier time getting US work visas? I personally doubt it...

randomsabreuse

I think your dh was lucky that it hadn’t progressed too far.

My Dp went over and over to the doctors and was prescribed nothing more than laxatives.

Eventually having to be helped into A&E because he couldn’t walk unaided where he was diagnosed with cancer.
In the words of the doctor who diagnosed him

“It is everywhere”

Yet a few days before he had been given another prescription for a different type of laxative and told not to frighten himself reading Dr Google.

I think the idea was that he should exhaust all laxatives before moving on to maybe looking for another reason he had been having difficulties for several months and not been to the toilet for a few weeks

I can only speak about the UK versus the US model as those are the ones I have experience of.

Was in fact stage 4 lymphoma- just most of the mass was scar tissue - so an utter sod to get a useful biopsy... DH's main symptoms were fatigue and a persistent cough plus chest pain so after ABs and inhalers failed the chest x-ray showed the mass.

So we were "lucky" it was obvious- without the chest pains and cough we'd have put it down to new baby and winter bugs rather than something major being wrong. We'd convinced ourselves it was whooping cough...

The NHS isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than many of the alternatives - there's a lot of institutional inertia and counter productive targets as well as the catastrophic staff shortages (which are likely to get worse following Brexit unless we poach from countries that really need their home grown medical staff)

The biggest transitional issue would be the cost of "insurance" for those currently in the system and who have a potentially limited capacity for earning and are higher risk.

Having an insurance model also undermine trust in medical professionals. No, it doesn't. Having just come back after 13 years in Belgium, 6 of those using Belgian healthcare (as opposed to UK military healthcare), the Belgian system, which is co-pay, works and is very efficient. The cost of prescriptions, which is the true cost as opposed to an NHS cost is scary, when you look at it, but the patient only pays a percentage. I had trust in the Belgian medics - very thorough and very professional, and a very joined up system. Dh is in disbelief about the NHS, given the encounters he's had with it in the 6 weeks he has been back.

Vets in the UK struggle with the "in it for the money" narrative. The change will be messy if/ when it happens!

I was told directly to ignore advice from my doctor by my boss because he didn't trust the doc wasn't over treating for financial gain in aforementioned EU country. It was a pretty difficult situation which many colleagues had also encountered.

Chatongris- I agree. The Italian health system has a lot of problems but I actually feel safer in Italy. Their detection and treatment rates for cancer are a lot better than the UK for example.

OP - go. Don't let the door swinging shut behind you hit you in the back.

That's you told OP 🙄

What great advice Silvafox...slow hand clap for you.

Just read the Britishexpats forum. The grass isnt always greener and plenty want to come back here or just come here.

It's a tough one. I regret not moving to the continent 3 years ago, but feel stuck here now. At least in Scotland we're not surrounded by right-wingers. I would be very hesitant about moving to Australia, to be honest. The extreme heat, the politics, the relative lack of culture, being so far away from Europe.

Many European social insurance systems offer better outcomes than the NHS and are much cheaper than the US system.

This is not going to happen in the UK because it's been decided that everything from the EU is BAD, whereas everything the US does is WONDERFUL.

This is not going to happen in the UK because it's been decided that everything from the EU is BAD, whereas everything the US does is WONDERFUL

No, it won't happen because we are obsessed with the fact that all healhtcare should be free, despite not making any attempt to look after ourselves physically.

Except it's not free - we pay via our taxes.

Leaving has moved up the list of possibilities, now. Found myself looking at rent costs in Glasgow/Edinburgh and Ireland yesterday. Eye-watering. Daughter still at uni in England, but by the time any necessary business is done I'd imaging she will have finished.

It's free at the point of use, plus people who don't pay any income tax still use it for free. It's free. Which is ridiculous and clearly doesn't work anymore.

We already have a 2 tier NHS, waiting times for consultations, elective surgery & scans can be months sometimes over a year.
Those that can go private, as i had too or i'd have lost my job when i broke my hip.... so not quite sure its Free at the Point of Use?

We just aren't prepared to pay the taxes to fund the NHS properly, pay its staff a decent wage or get social care working, the funds required are massive and brexit, by all measures means a smaller economy and therefore less tax take.
We also need to stop thinking we can treat our bodies how we like and then think the NHS will fix it.

Moving to an insurance based system won't conjure up staff, buildings or equipment.

I used to think that people in the UK were obsessed with not paying a bit more for things. With keeping taxes down, for instance. But Brexit shows us that that's not true. People are prepared to sacrifice a huge huge amount, financially and otherwise, for the sake of ideology. I suspect that, prior to Brexit, people could have been won over to pay more tax in order to improve the NHS.

The ordinary brexiter believes we will be better off after leaving. Here and IRL everything will be mucb better and we will be able to afford so much more when we are out and don't have to fund those scroungers in the EU and their benefit claiming citizens.

Ohhh its going to be fun.

we will be able to afford so much more when we are out and don't have to fund those scroungers in the EU and their benefit claiming citizens

even my Remain, Labour voting mum trotted out a trope about immigrants being housed ahead of locals when she was visiting over Christmas. What can you do? We didn't argue about it although I did say I thought it wasn't true, and in the end she said it was probably refugees. Well as we only take about 10 a year, that isn't having much of an impact on housing problems.

Right now, I am not in a position to leave (and as everyone has pointed out), each country has its own problems. Having said that, I do plan to future-proof as much as possible as I think we are in for a bumpy ride. Having an escape Plan B in a world driven by increasing extremes just feels like commonsense.

Why are people being so down on Australia? We moved here before Brexit. We earn twice as much money for the same jobs - with better working conditions. The public services, including health care, are great. It is a lovely place to live. In fact wherever you go, you always hear british accents. Nearly all the british people I have spoken to have citizenship and no desire to move back. In general, brexit hasn't influenced their choice as most have mentally disengaged with the UK. Although one worker colleague did move here specifically because of brexit and the nastiness it had brought in her community.

It's not perfect here, nowhere is. But everyday life is so much better than in the UK.