Brexit Arms - Out with the old and in with the new

[time4chocolate]

It’s time again for another Brexit Arms thread to see us into Christmas and beyond.

Well what a week it’s been!!

Boris has now completed his first week and he’s been busy. New conservatives have been sworn in, the Queens Speech yesterday shows promise (aware that the proof of the (Xmas) pudding is in the eating) and Boris’ Deal is going to be voted on today with the results being around 3pm I believe.

Meanwhile, on the other side all four wheels have definitely fallen off the red bus and were very nearly joined by a garden gate and a car door. Oh dear!!

Anyway, I have added a few more Christmas decs to the pub and popped the fairy back on the tree (it took a nasty tumble)

We are now good to go.
Cheers all 🍷🍷

Ps. If anyone wants to volunteer for outside catering that would be👍🏻

[BoswellSolver]

I'll keep my powder dry for now, but someone who posts such bile and vitriol is sure to have been banned before.

[Songsofexperience]

To all leavers on here, now that the 'b' word is dead it's all about the 't' word (trade) going forward. What is your ideal trade deal with the EU? What do you wish for as next steps? And what level of regulations do you want (workers, environment, food mostly)?
Sorry I know you guys are in a celebratory mood but I'm all about work and there's just 11 months to get things done! Chop chop

[DustyDiamond]

.

[Songsofexperience]

I'm hungover too dusty

[ChrismArseDarkly]

Oh dear Boswell, i'm sure you didn't mean to sound so intimidating?

[howabout]

"No.10: 'Within 2 hours of the exit poll, Brussels was briefing that we’d extend the implementation period and go for high-alignment.

'The reality is the PM wants a Canada-style FTA, with freedom to diverge...

'People in Brussels need to process that'"

Songs just voted to put the Executive back in charge of International trade treaties, as per the UK Constitution - not about to start 2nd guessing or undercutting them now.

Also reported No 10 do not intend to discuss the negotiations around Cabinet on an ongoing basis. Good. They need a swear box.

[ChrismArseDarkly]

You seem to have a very low tolerance to bile and vitriol if you think you've seen that in my posts..

Bile and Vitriol are commonly served here I've noticed!

[SingingLily]

Right now, I'm happy to give Boris a bit of elbow room and see what he comes up with. I'm betting that not only were the first hundred days intricately plotted before the GE, but the ten year plan is already taking shape.

Dusty and Boswell, appreciate your artwork as ever.

If there's an echo at the far end of the bar, blame it on the acoustics and just ignore. We've tried to fix it before but any fix is temporary and it keeps coming back. It's harmless.

[time4chocolate]

Dusty that's a pic I haven't seen in a while😂
certainly has all the hallmarks.

[Saucery]

Told you we shouldn’t have excavated that chimney breast and removed the old green bottle full of red sludge and feathers......

[DustyDiamond]

Time4 😉

[SingingLily]

Just read the second article, Howabout, and will need to read it again to make sure I get all the nuances. However, I've thought for some weeks now that Boris is more or less occupying the space vacated by Tony Blair (pre-Iraq): just as far left as the Conservatives can tolerate and just as far right as moderate Labour voters can tolerate. It's a very careful positioning.

The Labour Party cannot possibly pitch to the right of that position and pitching anywhere to the left, even just slightly left, won't bring all of their traditional voters back and certainly won't win any Conservatives over - something they need to do if they want to win an election.

In essence, by following Jezza on his journey to enlightenment, Labour has left itself with nowhere to go.

I know there are some who believe that they just need for old Tories to die and all will change, but the truth is, the electoral dial hasn't really changed much in fifty years. Michael Foot was unelectable. Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable.

[BangersNmashNgravy]

Do you serve bar nuts in this ‘stablishment LL? I shouldn’t really partake as I’ve developed an intolerance and they tend to repeat on me.

[DuckWillow]

I agree with you Singing about the place that Boris occupies.

[howabout]

just as far left as the Conservatives can tolerate and just as far right as moderate Labour voters can tolerate.

Agreed. I don't think it's calculated positioning though. It's where he has always been imho.

[time4chocolate]

Thanks for links howabout there are certainly some excellent articles around at the mo with some interesting analysis and plenty to chew over.

The Labour Party cannot possibly pitch to the right of that position and pitching anywhere to the left, even just slightly left, won't bring all of their traditional voters back and certainly won't win any Conservatives over - something they need to do if they want to win an election. The Labour Party cannot possibly pitch to the right of that position and pitching anywhere to the left, even just slightly left, won't bring all of their traditional voters back and certainly won't win any Conservatives over - something they need to do if they want to win an election.

I have been thinking similar too Singing, Labour have certainly painted themselves into a corner which is going to need some serious thinking about if they are to try and manoeuvre themselves out of it in one piece. Not too sure who the right person would be for that.

[DustyDiamond]

Both very interesting articles Howabout

This from 'The Full Brexit' I thought was particularly stark but insightful:

"Britain’s working class has now not only seen off the yuppie populism embodied in the “People’s Vote” campaign, they have achieved something virtually unprecedented in the political history of the EU – they have disciplined their own ruling class to abide by the outcome of an EU referendum. Not satisfied with this, they have pushed on further still, overthrowing the one-party statelets of the north dominated for generations by Labour’s complacent and high-handed tribunes.

The working-class voters of Wales, northern England and the Midlands have made a bold bid for political independence. Having broken free of Labour domination, working class voters in these regions see that they are biddable and that politicians must compete to represent them with tangible offers of material improvement to their lives: they now live in “swing states”."

"...Boris Johnson has already gone further than the indolent Labour Party when he noted in his victory speech that northern voters had only “lent” him their votes, thereby recognising working class voters as political actors."


It chimes back to a post on the previous thread about the ruling classes & the working classes being exactly equal in one very important area - the value of their vote

We are all equal in the ballot box 🤷🏻‍♀️

[ChrismArseDarkly]

Intolerance is a serious issue, you are right!

[SingingLily]

It's where he has always been imho.

Yes, agree, Howabout. Boris is, and always has been, a One Nation Tory - on the left of the party, as opposed to the Thatcherites, who are on the right. His instincts are liberal. If you take Brexit out of the equation altogether, he is a younger Ken Clarke with a mop of blond hair. Priti Patel, on the other hand, is a Thatcherite as is Liz Truss. He's keeping the two wings of the Party in balance at the moment while he shapes the direction of the new government. It's his first proper Cabinet shuffle that will tell us more.

[MeganBacon]

Agree with PPs that Boris is very much a one nation Tory and with Labour having moved so far left he could easily dominate the centre for years to come, just as Merkel moved the conservatives to the centre and claimed the SPD’s ground. It did however allow the AFD to move from the far right to the ground previously occupied by conservatives and that is still contentious. A lot of it is about the labelling not keeping pace with the underlying thinking and can be easily exploited.

[yolofish]

agree with you singing that the first Cabinet shuffle will be revealing. I am seriously hoping that all you lot here are right and it will all be OK... not liking the current talk about workers' rights and non reunification of child refugees but apparently that will be covered under a different topic in Parlt.

I am also not liking that rich Tory donors can buy themselves EU citizenship if they have £1m to invest in Cyprus. I mean, me personally, I was perfectly happy to be both a British and EU citizen, but I don't have a spare £1m?

Anyway, it's fuck it all Friday, a please and whatever anyone else is having...

[DustyDiamond]

🍷 Yolo

Re workers rights, child refugees etc - it's actually daft to have that in a bill which is about exiting the EU (imo)

Brexit means we'll be in charge of, and wholly responsible for, all these things - the right way to do it is to have it in its/their own Bill in its/their own right instead of tacking them on to something else

[hospitalityinspector]

Haha Dusty. Love the toddler tantrum.
Is it just me or has the post election face morphed into one reserved for the last 26 years, for this very moment? We've seen snapshots of pissy jezza but this is something else. There's a fixed look about it - the end of the project.

[Walkingdeadfangirl]

DuckWillow Do you still think its relevant that Corbyn never got credit for his 'many' peace awards? The Nobel peace prize, probably the most prestigious peace prize in the world, was awarded to Aung San Suu Kyi... She is now being tried for genocide.

I think Corbyn should sidle quietly into the night and retire quick smart before it gets worse for him.

[AutumnRose1]

Walking I was excited to meet Aung San Suu Kyi a few years ago.

Seems now like I was in a parallel universe or something.