Brexit Arms - Out with the old and in with the new

[time4chocolate]

It’s time again for another Brexit Arms thread to see us into Christmas and beyond.

Well what a week it’s been!!

Boris has now completed his first week and he’s been busy. New conservatives have been sworn in, the Queens Speech yesterday shows promise (aware that the proof of the (Xmas) pudding is in the eating) and Boris’ Deal is going to be voted on today with the results being around 3pm I believe.

Meanwhile, on the other side all four wheels have definitely fallen off the red bus and were very nearly joined by a garden gate and a car door. Oh dear!!

Anyway, I have added a few more Christmas decs to the pub and popped the fairy back on the tree (it took a nasty tumble)

We are now good to go.
Cheers all 🍷🍷

Ps. If anyone wants to volunteer for outside catering that would be👍🏻

[BoswellSolver]

The EU were a scapegoat though, but for our own leaders.
Now they are responsible for what they do, or do not achieve. We judge them for how they have either made our country better or worse.
Elections will focus on issues, not how good they are at begging for our own money back from the Great EU.

[TheWorldturnedUpsideDown]

Duck I'd urge caution getting any information from only one source.

I'm a historian by nature and when I want to know something, I research in many ways.
I must admit I didn't delve into le monde like singing but I did read articles in da speigal, some le monde.. Lite.

New York Times, the Atlantic, the guardian, observer, the Times, Sunday Times, the mail, Sunday mail, spectator, many other publications, as well as forums, people being interviewed on TV.

Real life chat.

It all goes into the big mixing bowl doesn't it and we filter from there.

As for jezzas random peace prize!

I literally couldn't care less what he has won.

[time4chocolate]

Bit late getting going this morning, looked out of the window and it's still raining here!

Cracking job on the breakfast tray Singing🥐👍.

Just a quick scan across the headlines in today's papers and it looks like RLB has picked a rather 'interesting' person to run her leadership campaign, no surprise that her preference seems to be hard left.

Things also look to be about to get feisty with the EU and trade, the jist being that competition within the EU is frowned upon but competition from a neighbouring country that is outside the EU is an absolute no no for them. Will be interesting to see what can be thrashed out whilst still being Brexit. Glad Boris is leading this rather than TM.

Have to pop out now to run some Christmasy type errands.

Will check back later

[TheWorldturnedUpsideDown]

I'm doing Christmassy ironing and cleaning!

Two small gifts left to buy.

[howabout]

Morning all
Just found my all time favourite gritter in Yorkshire - Penelope Grit Stop - she's pink and everything.

Now pondering whether there are enough bin lorries in the UK to commemorate all the players in the 3 year pantomime which has been Brexit so far.

[DuckWillow]

There’s lots of media out there and I find it frustrating to see all the spin on stuff. I do read widely generally but when it comes to politics I’ve found that we only get the information they want us to know.
If I had the inclination I could go for Hansard I guess....direct to the horses mouth as it were.
I do find the New York Times pretty good ...I rarely touch the Mail for political stuff as it’s always rubbish and hate filled. Meanwhile my FB news feed is full of articles about yesterday all with the spin whichever newspaper wants to put on it. So Boris Johnson is either an utter genius and Saint or he’s the devil incarnate. I don’t have time or the patience to deal with such biased reporting so I don’t bother. There’s more balance in this thread.

[DustyDiamond]

Morning All!

This will be my thread for political news from now on as there’s no spin on here. I can trust what I read rather than in any newspaper of media page.

I'm very aware that my views are all coloured by my own biases - something I've always tried valiantly to drum into my kids when I'm explaining stuff that's going on

I follow as many different viewpoints as possible, to try & keep myself from getting carried away in my own bias - it def helps..!

It's good to root around in all the different places I think, as there's good points to be found everywhere


As TheWorld said:
"It all goes into the big mixing bowl doesn't it and we filter from there."

[DustyDiamond]

I'm doing Christmassy ironing and cleaning!

I've just magnanimously given a lift to 14 yr old on paper round, then inhaled a load of pastries

Now feel sick, but have CHRISTMAS CLEANING to do!!!

Whole fucking house needs doing 😩😩

[howabout]

Sorry should be Penelope Slip Stop - even better

Duck I tend to agree on the current state of the media. Difficult to know if it is actually any worse than it has ever been. I suspect not. It's just that ordinary people now have far wider access to material to realise what is going on. That is a good thing.

What I find disconcerting is the willingness of people to swallow the soundbites from their own side. But again people throughout history have proven highly susceptible to propaganda.

I tend not to take anything anyone says at face value, but I don't think I am the norm. I actually prefer journalism with a clear editorial stand point because then it is being up front about the lens it is using to report the "facts".

"Factual" journalism, certainly as done by BBC etc atm, is the worst imho because it purports to be purely factual while making an editorial judgement on interpretation.

[DuckWillow]

Thanks all...I do like this thread.

Anyway off now as today I am making my Christmas Stuffing roll accompanied by Xmas music.

It is sausage meat with age, onion, breadcrumbs, crushed walnuts and cranberries wrapped in bacon. We are usually eating it through to New Year. It’s lovely with the Xmas dinner and then served cold with pickled onions.

Have a good day all.

[howabout]

Dusty I am on cleaning strike. No point once the house is covered in tinsel, cards and parcels.
I also have DD1 back home to knock her little sisters and her Dad back into shape. She is the very definition of the biggest big sister.

[howabout]

That sounds yummy Duck. Had my sess with the Christmas music doing the wrapping yesterday. Fair got me in the spirit thus being in switch off mode now.

[TheWorldturnedUpsideDown]

Duck yes hansard would be useful but words mean nothing without context, background, previous form etc.

Which is why I'm so glad we will only have our government to concern ourselves with rather than a far away, opaque, obstructive eu to worry about!!

One of the speeches that brought that home was Farage... Who are you speech in eu.
Everything will take different meaning depending on which angle you view it from hence look at it from as many angles as possible.


Stuffing sounds delicious!

[TheWorldturnedUpsideDown]

Is there a recipe duck.

I usually make homemade sausage rolls but add sage, caramelised apple and onion only.

[hospitalityinspector]

The media has had us all running around in circles, especially on the leave side. I've felt the slightest optimism for the leave campaign one minute, only for it to be quashed within a couple of hours from the same source. I still can't quite believe where we are now and keep scanning the media for some news to JCB (Boris style) through the positivity.

Are les patissieres oven ready Lily? I do like them warm. You do lovely breakfasts.

Dusty, I feel your pain with all the cleaning, but oh my goodness, imagine if you were tackling it with the thought of the alternative in number 10.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

The US take over has begun. Released last night at 10pm
The U.K. approved a £4bn US takeover of Defence firm Cobham
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50874181
Quote:
In one of its first major economic decisions, the government is not taking back control so much as handing it away. In Cobham we stand to lose yet another great British defence manufacturer to foreign ownership, through a takeover that would never have been approved by the Americans, French or Japanese, all of whom have taken steps recently to raise protections for their own defence sectors.

[Devereux1]

The US take over has begun.

Eh? Do you have any idea how many US/non-UK deals happen every week?

The question we should really be asking, is why UK investors and private equity firms are so, well, crap.

[howabout]

The FT verdict on why Remain finally lost. A textbook example of the editorial slant we're discussing (just happens to be Remain as first to jump out and hit me).

So where's the editorial bias:


www.ft.com/content/f5734204-232d-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

"Their agony is understandable. Britain at the end of 2019 is a majority Remain country. At the general election, 53 per cent of people voted for parties that are committed to a second referendum on Brexit.Less than half of people— 47 per cent — voted for the Conservatives and Brexit party."

The first statement is not supportable fact. The European election in March tends to point to the opposite conclusion.

The second statement implies that everyone who voted other than Tory / Brexit Party wants a 2nd Ref. This is not true. A sizeable proportion of both Labour and SNP voters are pro-Brexit but took a gamble because they chose Party / other priorities over Brexit. Even LibDem voters contained tactical anti-SNP / Tory and those who are not Remain nor in favour of a 2nd Ref. They thought Revoke was a way to reset and detoxify the debate.

Lumping the Tory vote in with the Brexit Party in the 47% is highly disingenuous. It is guilt by association plus seeking to underplay the size of the Tory mandate. The Tory Party vote share of 43.6% is higher than Tony Blair's in 1997 of 43.2% (he was an unknown quantity so his "mandate" is even less impressive as much of it was a vote against "the other lot").

In contrast I have lost count of the number of times the SNP "overwhelming mandate" for Indyref2 has been left unchallenged by the media. Their vote share was 45%, exactly the same as the Yes vote in 2014 Indyref - difference being the actual number of SNP voters in the GE was much smaller due to differential turn out.

"The wisest strategy for those advocating a second referendum would have been to deny Mr Johnson an election and to keep him twisting in the wind. His deal would have unravelled in the Commons as its flaws became clearer. That would have paved the way for a confirmatory referendum as the only solution to the impasse.

However, the SNP and Lib Dems preferred an early election. In the SNP’s case that paid off in extra seats. The Lib Dems’ motives are incomprehensible."

The first para of this section is pure fantasy. The HoC proved completely incapable of dissecting TM's Deal or Boris Deal or of deciding what sort of Deal would be optimal for any 2nd Ref. The Labour Party couldn't even begin to come up with a workable compromise in a month's worth of private talks with TM's team.

The FT gives itself away in the next para. It is a Right Wing Financier Remain Rag. Little wonder its Dream Outcome would have been for the Gaukward squad to be able to use the Lab/LibDem and SNP to hold the rest of the Tory Party hostage to get its desired outcome.

The LibDems and HeadGirl Jo made lots of mistakes during the GE but at least they stopped short of going down the Clegg route.

There's actually loads more to analyse in the piece but probably more than enough of me pontificating to catch the drift.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Devereaux
No I do not know how many multi-billion pound U.K. businesses are sold to the US every week. Would you like to share that figure with us?

[howabout]

PlanDe given the UK and US run a joint defence strategy via NATO and Trident it actually makes sense for UK manufacture to be under US ownership. Makes them less susceptible to strategic anti-competitive moves from the US (eg Bombardier). AFAIK most major defence projects are joint enterprises and both UK and US companies will have International shareholders.

Unless we are talking about renationalising defence and working in closed jotter isolation I think these sort of articles are just so much false flag hubris imho.

No claim to expertise in this area so perfectly happy to be educated.

[howabout]

PlanDe I'm sure you could track down the figures for inward and outward investment fairly easily. They were poured over endlessly in 2016/17 until the Remain side realised they weren't very spinnable in their favour. However they are very lumpy and don't tend to shed much light without a great deal of background understanding.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

The inward/outward ONS figures track everything £1million and up.
From those figures, it is not mathematically possible for multi-billion pound takeovers to even be monthly occurrences much less weekly.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

How about
PlanDe given the UK and US run a joint defence strategy via NATO and Trident it actually makes sense for UK manufacture to be under US ownership.

No it doesn’t from a national security perspective. Example. US to UK. we are invading Iran, if you don’t join us well, all your defence orders and work will be cancelled because we can only manufacture stuff for the Iran war effort. So join us, or have no defence capability x (in Cobham case Air to air refuelling).

[Devereux1]

PlanDeRaccordement

//www.ft.com
Fill yer boots!

[PlanDeRaccordement]

My scenario is not far fetched btw. The US has a DPAS (defense priority allocation system) and several laws where any ciritical industry under US ownership is required by law to prioritise or only do DoD orders during a war effort. If the company refuses, the military is legally able to take over the factories management and oversee the workers.