Westminstenders: The only way forward is up.

[placemats]

A new thread as the other one is getting full. I'm enjoying the post election discussion. Every view is listened to and welcomed.

Brexit is happening, but what kind of Brexit will it be?

New leaderships for both Labour and the LibDems.

Most importantly, will Britain be Great in 2024?

It's very strange how people are talking about the education background of a new Labour leader when people have just voted for Eton educated, Oxford educated Boris Johnson.

Maybe it is about charisma and intelligence. Media likeability, no baggage and an ability to speak well and passionately and to engage people.

There no uni I know of in the country - where private students ‘dominate’ in the sense of being in the majority.

Figures from 2014:

HIGHEST STATE SCHOOL INTAKE

University of Ulster 99.9%
The University of Bolton 99.4%
Liverpool Hope University 99.1%
Glyndŵr University 99.1%
Newman University 98.9%
Teesside University 98.8%
The University of Wales, Newport 98.7%
Middlesex University 98.6%
The University of Wolverhampton 98.5%
The University of the West of Scotland 98.5%

LOWEST STATE SCHOOL INTAKE

The University of Oxford 57.4%
The University of St Andrews 58.9%
The University of Bristol 59.4%
The University of Cambridge 63%
University of Durham 63.4%
Imperial College London 64.7%
University College London 65.7%
The University of Edinburgh 67.3%
The University of Exeter 69.1%
The University of Newcastle 70%

They were still in a minority when I was there in the noughties. The expectation from lecturers that everyone knew Latin always amused me. Oxbridge is far, far and away the most elitist place I have ever been.

It's very strange how people are talking about the education background of a new Labour leader when people have just voted for Eton educated, Oxford educated Boris Johnson.

IKR.

They need to use other platforms to get their voices heard. They need to forensically question everything. They need to point out the lies and inconsistencies.

Agreed, they need to make de pfeffel a laughing stock outside Parliament. Although sooner or later I think de pfeffel will undo himself.

To my feeble brain the University references are adding nothing to the conversation.

Who really cares whether one has, or has not been to Oxford or wherever. We should be basing our opinions on people's ability and actions.

But I suppose the class system is alive and well, and always will be. Is that what this is about now? The fact that KS achieved great academic and professional success despite not having a silver spoon?

Obviously no REAL LABOUR supporter could EVER aspire to that. Keep them down or something. Honestly.

Boris is thick
Keir is bright
we NEED somebody of Keir's brain and gravitas to ask appropriate questions during debates over the coming weeks

Corbyn cannot (both intellectually and politically)
McDonnell cannot (ditto)
Abbott cannot (ditto)

There HAS to be a new Front Bench team that uses all the best brains in the party to pick holes in the Tory policies
Hillary Benn as a particular case in point
Clive Lewis as another
Stephen Kinnock as another

Tatiana if 30% of Newcastle students are privately educated, that is a huge amount, There is a thread in HE at the moment which mentions how some 18 year olds are feeling a bit like they don't belong at Durham because of their background. it really is entrenched and those unis on that list have not changed for donkey's years.

I want someone with integrity and Starmer has that in spades. Suppose I just want antidote to the populism and lies of Bojo.
I think the new leader should be a caretaker anyway- someone sensible to carry the party while it reassesses it’s strategies and reforms a bit.

It's very strange how people are talking about the education background of a new Labour leader when people have just voted for Eton educated, Oxford educated Boris Johnson.

So should Labour ape the Tories? Or look to offer something different? At some point?

Eton, Balliol

or

Adam's Grammar School, North London Poly dropout

has just been on offer

listening I don't necessarily disagree with your list but are there genuinely no women in Labour who you think could take seat on the bench?

Well exactly kinsss. It doesn't really seem the right question.

It's my fault for derailing.

I was wondering at the idea that, having voted in BJ, who is lazy and not v clever but went to Oxford because he'd been to Eton and then notoriously loafed around writing fallacious articles for the Telegraph, voters might deem KS, who is dead smart and worked bloody hard to get where he did, overly elitist because he went to Leeds.

Let's move on...

Boris is thick

I love how this remains the default belief. Consider Boris’ position 3 months ago when the Benn Act was passed - trapped, powerless, written off - and look how the tables have turned today. Thick people don’t win landslides

It's generally agreed that Boris isn't the one doing the thinking.
As evidenced by his performances when he has to answer questions, which he does so badly that he couldn't appear on TV debates in the run-up to the election.

we NEED somebody of Keir's brain and gravitas to ask appropriate questions during debates over the coming weeks

But how many people care about the debates?
People read headlines.
They don't watch debates.

Someone may be able to pick Boris apart in a debate but outside of Westminster, no one cares.

We need someone who can get heard by people, heard by the media and can inspire people on the ground and be seen in constituencies.

When Brexit goes wrong, things aren't delivered, their local MPs and local parties need to get that out into the local area. Challenge the Tories on the ground.

Boris needs to be held to account. And people outside of the bubble needs to know he is being held to account.

Actually I think that thinking that BJ is thick is a mistake. It’s falling for his image of being a bafoon and looking like a clown.
I wouod say he is intelligent.
He is also self obsessed and so in love with power that he will do anything to get and stay in power.
He is a fucking dangerous man with totalitarian tendencies so say the least.
Imo the worse we can do is to treat him as if he was stupid. Because he is dangerous and not afraid to pull all the very dirty tricks in the book to get what he wants (which includes lying, fake news, removing citizens rights etc etc)

Johnson is an utter fraud. Could not maintain a line of argument as he really has no interest to. Advisers tell him. Like Trump.
As mince.

Piggy
The ones I picked out are ones who should be there on the interim front bench along with all of the women listed in other contexts.
The KEY POINT
is that the Corbyn clique have to go

Thick people don’t win landslides
Absolutely.
Clever people like Isaac Levido knew that to win a landslide he had to keep the figurehead away from the voters.
Clever people like Dominic Cummings knew that to win a landslide meant giving the figurehead short phrases to say and no decisions to take.

If we are going to look back at academic backgrounds, remember that Eton was NOT academically selective in the late 70's

@thecatfromjapan thanks for your posts, I am seriously considering joining the labour party, despite not having always voted for them.

I agree FWIW auld. Boris is like one of those posh people I met at Oxford who put holes in jumpers, sat on tables, and never brushed their hair (he still doesn't!) in order to look like a 'pleb'. Starmer to some will appear to lack that louche entitlement and just appear a dull 'girly' swot.(to quote BJ)

However, I like swots.

He is also self obsessed and so in love with power that he will do anything to get and stay in power

I wonder what his weaknesses are? Can his 'strengths' be used against him?

Yes let us move on. We all know that Johnson went to the pigs mickey school of thought and then to Oxford. Didn't make him any better than me anyway. Never.

And as soon as someone in Labour, by their bootstraps achieves academic success it is somehow wrong and not according to the little Red Book or something?

It is all down to Class and will never change. UK (well England) is obsessed with it, and generally want to keep the riff raff out and keep it for themselves. Interlopers are not welcome.

Sorry, I am my own worst enemy, I said this issue of Universities was useless and here I am continuing to rant. Mea culpa. No more now.

Angela Raynor should be up there IMO - one who fully knows what working class lives are like now - not the old heavy industry people but that of care workers etc. Fully knows the value of the NHS.

DH has just joined the Labour party - with the hope of being eligible to vote for the leader. Doesn't want a Blairite. He is personally too enamoured of Corbyn for my liking, so trying to steer him away. Voted Tory in 1979 - not allowed to forget it by me!

As for 'our Boris' - I said he could undo himself - overweight, dissolute lifestyle, could turn to drink or drugs, an easy candidate for a heart attack. Most PM's age in Office anyway.

Tatiana if 30% of Newcastle students are privately educated, that is a huge amount, There is a thread in HE at the moment which mentions how some 18 year olds are feeling a bit like they don't belong at Durham because of their background.

30% is nowhere near the majority and not far off the 18% figure of total number of 16+ students. If someone is a student at Durham they belong there.