Westminstenders: Election Special 3

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No, she's useful to remind us what Tories are like

• for those folk who are telling themselves the Tories won't be that bad really

Oh, Stephen Kinnock. I like him...

Squid I campaigned. I know a lot of us did. That's why it hurts so much. My wonderful Labour MP retained his seat. I had so many posters and a massive fuck off Labour sign in garden. It's still there. I hope you are ok. I'm a fellow practitioner. This is so shit, but we will come back from it eventually (albeit, I'm also walking away from the NHS and medicine) please PM me if you need moral support, as I could do with it too!

"the man who got a deal when everyone said he couldn't"

because he conceded more than May !
He conceded a basically permanent NI frontstop instead of a insurance only backstop - he did what May said no UK PM could ever do

Of course the EU would always accept a deal that gave them better NI terms than before

• so in their own interests, the E27 were hoping for a big BJ majority

Countries around the world are licking their lips at the prospect of negotiating with BJ

I agree with much of what you have posted NoMoreMonkeys.

Bugger - MN ate my post ....I'll need to try and remember what I'd written

I remember being shocked when I moved to the South East after I graduated (worked for ICI in Welwyn Garden City) to find out that the "Watford (Gap)" was barely from my Scottish perspective north of London I'd always assumed that it was much further North after the way that the London-centric MSM talked about the area north of it as being "here there be beasts and monsters" the back of beyond and totally uncultured Yes, I know my English geography should have been better

And BTW: there is a whole country north of the "North", the "North West" and the "North East"

I had an enjoyable visit to the village Christmas market that is literally a few meters from my doorstep, along the Rhine
Music, Xmas lights, about 20 stalls with local crafts and mulled wine, sausages, chips etc

Lovely friendly atmosphere, everyone smiling & laughing

If you are near anywhere with seasonal fun - lights, carols etc - then maybe go out and enjoy yourselves, connect with the neighbours and recharge your batteries,

derxa yup, I know about farming. I come from 10 generations of farmers. (o I know how bloody-minded they are!) What kind of farming?

Was it Watford or the Watford Gap though? People do conflate those.

The NW and the NE aren't north of the North... they are part of the North...?

With the changing pattern of work and the replacement of many manual jobs by automation,
the traditional wc is a much smaller % of the population than it was a few decades ago

Labour need to appeal to both wc and mc, old traditional industries, new tech jobs, mc professionals, white British, BAME, white minority ethnic etc

Oh, Stephen Kinnock. I like him...

Well, it is traditional for a Kinnock to take over for a couple of elections at this point...

@LouiseCollins28 meant to say this earlier, very much appreciated your thoughtful & kind post earlier.

I know that BCF, I've followed it and followed these threads, largely lurking with occasional contributions. I'm well aware that his deal is shit, but the focus was so strongly on the fact he would not get a deal (he's lazy, wouldn't know how etc) that it was applauded wildly when he presented it.
It was so strongly painted that he would fail, that his success in bringing something back was more important than what it contained. Simply more fuel for the fire "they said I couldn't do it, but look, I did" how many people can resonate with that feeling? He succeeded when people said he would fail, that he gave away so many concessions and reduced protections was unimportant because he had done what they said he couldn't.
I don't agree with it, I don't believe in him, but it's a sentiment seen on these threads time and again, and in real life. The difference in real life is the ability to break down barriers because of the human connection. Maybe now we can move on and fix the divide, but it needs both sides to be open to talking without the feeling it is pointless as they will get shouted down for believing the wrong thing.

The NW and the NE aren't north of the North... they are part of the North...?

This is a timely reminder that there is a country called Scotland, north of the north.
It amused me when Cameron and Osborne talked of a 'northern powerhouse' in the Manchester region i.e . at the foot of the Pennines, where upland Britain only just begins. I appreciate as Londoners that they wouldn't really know where Manchester was, and wouldn't be able to locate places like Newcastle or Carlisle on a map.

LouiseCollins28 meant to say this earlier, very much appreciated your thoughtful & kind post earlier

Me too, it’s really nice to be reminded that all Tories aren’t vile, goady, gloating little humbugs.

Piggy yeah but they are not north of the UK.

Scotland has it's very own North East.

It's a place that's made the UK shotloads of money

That surely is the problem though, because people are now more aspirational and don't see themselves in the old categories any longer.

This I think accounts for Denis Skinner's defeat. When the area was one with working coal mines, he could understand, having been one himself. Once gone, he couldn't really relate to people in the Sports Direct warehouses.

Not only that at 87 and not in the best of health, I think he would have been better off retiring anyway.

The Chris Grey blog posted by crunchycarrots was an excellent summary. Highly recommended

Pedantry alert: Clifton and Cotgrave both had pits, Clifton mine workings run under the suburbs, towns and villages of South Notts. Clifton just off junction 24M1

I come from a Nottinghamshire mining family.

Maybe now we can move on and fix the divide, but it needs both sides to be open to talking without the feeling it is pointless as they will get shouted down for believing the wrong thing.

Yes, that is necessary. As with the Good Friday Agreement, people need to sit down and find out what they have in common and what they can agree with, and what they are prepared to give up. It requires people of integrity with some statesman like qualities. These are attributes that Johnson does not have.

I was just responding to someone saying NW England was north of the north!
You're all southerners to me! unless from Aberdeen

We all need to shuffle over to pedants' corner!

Piggy most definitely southern to you. And now in Englandshire

I have to renew my passport in 2024. Will it just say England and Wales, I wonder?