Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: The Undecideds

987 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2019 19:55

Apparently the pollsters are nervous.

There are far more undecided than there have been at this stage in recent general election.

This makes it a hugely fine line between a hung parliament and a massive tory majority.

The weather on Thursday isn't expected to be nice and this could affect turnout. The blue corner are particularly nervous about this, but don't forget those postal votes.

Whatever happens on Thursday at least this election campaign is nearly over. And that can't be a bad thing.

And Christmas is in a fortnight so we can all drown our sorrows or celebrate in style.

You always have time to restock the drinks if you end up resort to them on Thursday

(New election special thread on Thursday rather than bunging up Westminstenders BTW)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
45
ThatSeventiesLass · 10/12/2019 20:34

@longtimelurkerhelen Helen I also believe they are evil. Psychopaths. It feels like we are about to unleash a chain of events that will take us all to hell. As with all psychopaths, we just have to protect ourselves and our families as best we can.

ListeningQuietly · 10/12/2019 20:35

Stinkyeddie
I think we will know that one on Friday Breakfast time Wink

Stinkyeddie · 10/12/2019 20:36

(Gnashes teeth)

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2019 20:36

Can anyone explain simply for the love of god how the polls can be right with so many undecideds????

That is the £1,000,000 question which is making the pollsters sweat. Its their reputation on the line. And with that a hell of a lot of money.

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 10/12/2019 20:38

Oh dear, Zuckerberg is at it again
news.sky.com/story/researchers-fear-catastrophe-as-political-ads-disappear-from-facebook-library-11882988

SwedishEdith · 10/12/2019 20:44

There is real concern about what will happen in City of Westminster and in Kensington with the LDs and Labour splitting the vote and letting in the Tories.

Is that where Sam Gyimah is standing? Why did he pick there?

squid4 · 10/12/2019 20:45

I don't really understand how pollsters have any repuation at all, after 2017 and 2016 and 2015 and 2010 and...

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/12/2019 20:46

Ian Ballantine-Gray, Democratic Socialist, #JC4PM
@GrayWolfBG1
·
5h
A facebook post went up 'claiming' to be from a children's Dr from the 'acute' wards saying that the incident was staged

But the post came from the wife of one of hancock's friends, (who is a Dr & who the poster declares she is a P.A. for?)

The accnt was then deleted

HateIsNotGood · 10/12/2019 20:56

Hi RTB - whilst I appreciate that I haven't anything welcome to add to the general thread, I did agree with your 'frustrations' and sentiments about why would anyone enter politics or give themselves voluntarily to any public service?

Very good points - and one poster did mention that they had too many 'skeletons' that would rattle too much under scrutiny and probably I would fit that category too, as I'm sure many others here would too; although mostly it comes under being 'human' as in 'to err is' - unfortunately I think we place to high a bar, a supra-human bar, on our politicians.

Everything they do, say, write, live, don't do is scrutinized, from various perspectives, until it is either a wrong thing or a right thing. Who would choose to live like that?

Eyewhisker · 10/12/2019 20:57

Jack Merritt’s father has spoken out on Twitter about how he has had no condolences from No.10, despite government claims.

I was no Thatcher fan, but she always contacted the families. Johnson/Cummings don’t give a shit.

OublietteBravo · 10/12/2019 20:58

I really enjoyed telling the Tory phone canvasser that I’m voting Labour Grin

I might have expressed my very, very low opinion of Johnson at some length GrinGrin

SwedishEdith · 10/12/2019 21:02

I don't really understand how pollsters have any repuation at all, after 2017 and 2016 and 2015 and 2010 and...

Because sometimes some of them are bang on and they're all trying to make that perfect prediction model? But Brexit not being on party lines, tactical voting being understood by more - but not enough - voters and more genuine 'don't knows' because of a lack of candidates they can vote for makes predictions harder.

I should (will) vote tactically but that my constituency may be becoming slightly more 3 way so it's not that clear so I'm, technically, still a don't know. No pollsters ask me though. 😁

Ellie56 · 10/12/2019 21:04

OublietteBravo

I wouldn't have thought it would have taken that long to tell the canvasser that Bozo was an unmitigated lying racist twat and totally unfit for high office. Grin

Piggywaspushed · 10/12/2019 21:05

I do think it's OK yes RTB. The word shouted was hyperbole but I think he thoroughly deserves a good tongue lashing. Do you not think someone who works for an overseas aid charity who voted to leave and supports cuts to overseas aid deserves to be called out? Do you think I shouldn't have been annoyed when he lied to my face about school funding? I didn't shout so I retract that. I just refused to be lied to and was firm with him. Should they only be approached by people who want to shake their hands and utter platitudes?

Dontlickthetrolley · 10/12/2019 21:06

Finally a Boris advert I approve of on Mumsnet Xmas Grin

Westminstenders: The Undecideds
Westminstenders: The Undecideds
Rowanberries · 10/12/2019 21:08

I went to Sainsburys earlier as I needed to get a toy as the scouts were collecting for a charity who will be giving them out to local kids who wouldn't otherwise get Christmas presents. Standing in the toy aisle I got so angry. Kids shouldn't have to rely on charity to get a christmas present. People shouldn't need food banks to feed themselves. Small boys with pneumonia shouldn't have to lie on the floor. Doctors like squid shouldn't be at the end of their tether. I'm so fucking ANGRY. These lying, morally decrepit wankers are targeting me on Facebook and even on mumsnet because I live in a Labour leave seat. I actually want to pay more tax- I am comfortably off and want to give other people the helping hand that I had (tax credits for childcare costs kept me and dh both employed while the kids were small). I want to live in a place where we help one another.

I bought as many toys as I could. A tiny drop against everything that is going wrong but I've decided I'm going to use the anger that has been lit to do something. I can't change the world (there seem to be so many people who have bought into Johnson's lies) but I've decided I'm going to fight as long and as hard as I can.

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2019 21:08

Is that where Sam Gyimah is standing?Why did he pick there?

He's standing in Kensington.

Kensington being highly remain but very divided economically - one of the most economically divided in the country. So soft Tories are alarmed by Johnson but can't even consider Corbyn as an option. Gymiah, who is LD spokesman for business is therefore a fit for those ex tories.

It's also Grenfell's constituency and whilst there is support for Emma Dent Coad from some quarters she's not without controversy either.

She recently report Gymiah to the police for 'lies' claiming he implied that she as a Labour Councillor bore some responsibility for the decision to use the ill fated cladding. (Under electoral law it's an offence to publish literature which makes false claims about a candidate).

OP posts:
Stinkyeddie · 10/12/2019 21:09

I feel quite emotional atm
I think I'm gonna do some self care tomorrow...sofa, films, chocolate, bath...
Some "time out"

ListeningQuietly · 10/12/2019 21:15

For those thinking about getting involved with the Democratic process, there are four levels ....

Parish and Town Councils are often non party political
and in places like Market Towns can achieve amazing things
www.nalc.gov.uk/library/our-work/elections-1/2814-all-about-local-councils-2018/file

District and Borough Councils are usually political but not strongly
www.local.gov.uk/our-support/guidance-and-resources/councillors-guide-201718/councillors-role

Country and Unitary Councillors are pretty much always political and its effectively a full time job
(see the LGA link)

MPs come either from the ranks of councillors
or through the SPAD / party machine route

all four are impacted by the lack of adherence to the
www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-7-principles-of-public-life
at the moment Sad

RedToothBrush · 10/12/2019 21:22

Do you not think someone who works for an overseas aid charity who voted to leave and supports cuts to overseas aid deserves to be called out? Do you think I shouldn't have been annoyed when he lied to my face about school funding? I didn't shout so I retract that. I just refused to be lied to and was firm with him. Should they only be approached by people who want to shake their hands and utter platitudes?

You've made a point of saying how you really went after him and have since somewhat backtracked when people have questioned you on this. Whether or not I ultimately agree with your sentiments are somewhat beside the point for that reason.

I do think people should be challenged but the way you do that is important.

You originally said
Just shouted at/ harangued a prospective Tory MP in Sainsburys (Not my constituency but he was a sitting duck)

That reads like a boast about how shouting at candidates in a situation they can't avoid is acceptable - that's not challenging. And then there's a reference to a 'sitting duck'.

Language matters here. A sitting duck is a term which is associated with a certain context.

He's a definition I've just found via a quick google:
Sitting Duck
Term usually used/heard in combat. Means an individual or persons is extremly vulnerable, possibly out in the open and or helpess in their current position.

Yes we should challenge people but if you can't do it in a calm way, you end up damaging your own cause and argument anyway. You end up being perceived as a ranting crazy person who can't be taken seriously. It gives your opposition ammunition to ignore the point you were trying to make.

You might feel better for a few minutes but you've achieved the sum total of nothing in the longer term.

Think about it.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 10/12/2019 21:23

Editor of Yorkshire Post has published an open letter:

'Tuesday 10 December 2019

A recent story featuring the mother of a young boy who had a traumatic experience at Leeds General Infirmary has been the subject of a number of complaints to our newsroom.
The story in question features a mother who contacted our sister title the Yorkshire Evening Post and provided them with a picture of her son, Jack, sleeping on the floor of the hospital due to a lack of beds. You can read that story here.
It has been picked up by politicians, national media and social media users and led to a series of allegations being made towards his mother and our journalists, as well as causing a great deal of confusion to the general public.

Among those to contact us was a woman by the name of Margaret, a loyal reader of The Yorkshire Post, expressing her disappointment over the story, which she described as a "set up".
Our editor, James Mitchinson, has replied to her and, as so many people have been raising similar issues, we have decided to publish his reply as an open letter.

Margaret (forgive my using your first name but I am loath to guess at your title for fear of getting it wrong).
Thank you for your email and thank you for being one of our loyal weekend readers. So much time, effort and talent goes into putting the weekend package together that it is always nice to know there are people out the Forgive my doing this, but I do feel it is important to respond as you would expect me to as the editor of one of the most trusted newspapers in the country.
The story was first published by the Yorkshire Evening Post after the mother - Sarah - contacted us directly;
Because it is irresponsible - and reckless - to take one person's word and take it as fact, we immediately checked the veracity of the assertion with the hospital. That's not a boast, by the way, just bog-standard journalism;
The hospital itself confirmed the set of circumstances you read in our story were The Chief Medical Officer for Leeds Teaching Hospitals - Dr Yvette Oade - accepted the situation had occurred and offered an explanation as to why. The principal reason given for what happened to Jack was demand outstripped capacity. They were overrun;
The Chief Executive, Julian Hartley, confirmed their ordeal had taken place. He offered a personal apology to Sarah and to Jack whilst backing the staff at LGI who are absolutely giving their all, but cannot cope with the sheer number of people needing their help.
So, as you can see, we went to great lengths to establish the story was true and to check that the hospital accepted as much. I do not blame you for contacting me as you have do You have no way of holding Sheree to account, nor checking her words. She's a stranger to you. You don't even know if it is a real person, so why do you trust her claim over the newspaper you've taken for years, in good faith?;
Sheree - robot or human - did not offer a credible source. The words a 'good friend of mine' adds warmth and humanity to the post in order to dupe others into believing her words are credible. They are not, as far as anyone can tell. I attach below a screengrab of multiple accounts who also claim to have a 'good friend' at LGI. It simply isn't credible or true. Again, the words are manufactured very carefully and cynically in order to mislead;
I also attach for your interest several accounts claiming to be 'a former paediatric nurse' - the accounts are fakes. All make the same claim, using the same wording.
Margaret, it may well be that those who will benefit the most by breaking the bond of trust you have with the likes of The Yorkshire Post and Yorkshire Evening Post have already won, but I urge you to consider which news source you can get in touch with. Who is willing to look you in the eye and tell you they did their best to get it right versus those who pop up on Facebook, spout something so compelling that others share it, and with that undermine the truth and discombobulate decent citizens.
I would be more than happy to meet you over a coffee or such to offer you an explanation as to how sophisticated and corrosive the proliferation of fake news is, and what you can do to guard against being conned by it. Only - of course - if that is not patronising (I absolutely do not mean it to be) and welcome. However, if you no longer trust your Yorkshire Post - and I will be frustrated and disappointed if these people had wrecked your confidence in this historic champion for the county - contact the hospital directly. Whatever you do, do not believe a stranger on social media who disappears into the night.
Very best wishes to you and your family ahead of the festive period.
James ne. You are not the only one to have seen the Sheree Jenner-Hepburn Facebook post - amongst thousands of others very similar in nature - and believed it to be true. What we are dealing with is quite simply: a very poorly little boy in a place that cannot give him the care he needs and as a result a mother reaching out for help. They are the ones that really matter, here.
As I say, I am not surprised you have been misled by that post. But, if you'll bear with me, I offer you this:
That account has now disappeared. Our accounts are still here and you can hold me and my journalists to account;
^
You have no way of holding Sheree to account, nor checking her words. She's a stranger to you. You don't even know if it is a real person, so why do you trust her claim over the newspaper you've taken for years, in good faith?;^
Sheree - robot or human - did not offer a credible source. The words a 'good friend of mine' adds warmth and humanity to the post in order to dupe others into believing her words are credible. They are not, as far as anyone can tell. I attach below a screengrab of multiple accounts who also claim to have a 'good friend' at LGI. It simply isn't credible or true. Again, the words are manufactured very carefully and cynically in order to mislead;
I also attach for your interest several accounts claiming to be 'a former paediatric nurse' - the accounts are fakes. All make the same claim, using the same wording.
Margaret, it may well be that those who will benefit the most by breaking the bond of trust you have with the likes of The Yorkshire Post and Yorkshire Evening Post have already won, but I urge you to consider which news source you can get in touch with. Who is willing to look you in the eye and tell you they did their best to get it right versus those who pop up on Facebook, spout something so compelling that others share it, and with that undermine the truth and discombobulate decent citizens.
I would be more than happy to meet you over a coffee or such to offer you an explanation as to how sophisticated and corrosive the proliferation of fake news is, and what you can do to guard against being conned by it. Only - of course - if that is not patronising (I absolutely do not mean it to be) and welcome. However, if you no longer trust your Yorkshire Post - and I will be frustrated and disappointed if these people had wrecked your confidence in this historic champion for the county - contact the hospital directly. Whatever you do, do not believe a stranger on social media who disappears into the night.
Very best wishes to you and your family ahead of the festive period.
James

thecatfromjapan · 10/12/2019 21:27

I read that letter as another example of the heroic efforts of ordinary people and small organisations to try and resist the wave of horror engulfing us all.

Really, it's on us, now.

It's all we can do.

All of us have to try, heroically, to not succumb, to resist, to uphold those values of respect, decency, truth, democracy - all of it - because there isn't going to be an amazing fleet of star-ships or elves or whatever coming to save us.

lljkk · 10/12/2019 21:28

I Predict that Tories will lose Norwich North & gain North Norfolk.

Piggywaspushed · 10/12/2019 21:28

He was ignoring me anyway RTB.

I was perfectly calm. And I feel better. I genuinely don't care what he thinks of me since I imagine he has a low opinion of Labour voters/teachers anyway.

Anyway, don't want to argue with you.

He put himself there in Sainsbury's : he will have expected a level of confrontation. He didn't look bothered. I called him no names and did not call Boris Johnson any names either . I challenged him.

If people can't spot hyperbole, then I'm sorry.

This is why people had a pop at Angela Rayner yesterday because she 'shouted' at Nigel Farage. Politics has never been about decorum really.

I have debated against Nicola Sturgeon. I like a good argument.