The Brexit Arms. Is this Ben Elton? Is it free mulled wine and mince pies for everyone or a Corb-free Christmas 🎄?

[SingingLily]

Welcome to the Brexit Arms!

The temporary Landlady is back but worry not, all is festive good cheer with just another three days to go until we reach the Only Poll That Really Matters. Till then, the gloves are still on!

A quick recap of the events of the last week or so:

📋❓💙❤️💛⁉️💙‼️🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️😀☹️😀☹️😧😱🙄😬🤥🤔🤕🗳

Anyone of any political persuasion who is prepared to join in, eschew goadery, and enjoy a laugh, welcome. First drinks are on the house.

XingMing I loved Frank Field! Think the unthinkable - and he did! Pity nobody in charge took any notice.

Evening all - a pint of best and a a packet of twiglets please.

Thank you for clarifying the hospital equipment in the photo squid and welcome to The Arms. I think all here, and elsewhere, agree that the NHS needs a serious 'seeing to' - from top to bottom - irrespective of their political persuasions. We really do have to get this Brexit thing started, so that we can address the many socio-economic issues requiring our urgent attention.

Very impressed by the travels of many posters here - lots of places mentioned here that are on my 'bucket list'.

Can I add Lithuania? One of DS's favourite places he's been too (low summer temperatures), I quite liked it too. There was a certain brightness in the air on the Baltic. We did venture to the Russian border at Kaliningrad, but given we were only in Lithuania a few days and in an hire car, I thought it best not to cross.

The Lithuanians were very friendly and thoughtful (the Russian 'settlers' not so much).- a cherished memory was ds (aged 12) getting an impromptu basketball lesson one evening on a pier. Basketball being a Lithuanian declaration of their Indepedence from the CCCP.

“So, about 30% of my nurse/doctor colleauges are not British. (Though this number is plummeting as people are quitting)

About 3% of my patients are not british.

You do the maths...”

I get that, It’s not that so much, I’m talking about forward going issues. Labour need to be able to forecast to help fix the current issues, how can they do that, with the plan they have?

Before anyone starts, this is not about me hating on immigrants at all, I just don’t follow the logic of the two positions.

“Controlled immigration is the answer, surely? Open the borders to qualified health professionals from everywhere in the world”

This. 1 million percent.

Also a big fan of Frank Field

Very measured, genuine & all about working for the best outcomes, not fussed about who's idea something was but what the idea was and the value of it

Another Frank Field fan here too.

“Very impressed by the travels of many posters here - lots of places mentioned here that are on my 'bucket list'.”

To my shame I am not so well travelled, unless you include the US, continental Europe and devon. . In my defence, I have been raising kids since I was 20 on very little money for most of that time (and had a crippling fear of flying!) Maybe when the last one leaves, I might get finally get my chance! 😂

Although, I might give North Korea a hard swerve. 😂

I think labour's plans are ambitious and hopeful and likely even if they were in government with majority (which is unlikely after all) would take long time to work through and be tempered by other parties etc.

I am just voting for SOMEONE who is ambitious and hopeful and cares because the alternative/status quo is really grim. The economy is shit so it's not as if austerity has done any good. There's some brilliant ideas from labour right now. Especially with regards to climate change (I bang on about the NHS but we all know climate change is the real emergency right now.)

There are homeless people sleeping on my street, they are mainly young. There never used to be. The homeless population has quadrupled. I give them money and food and I took a guy home the other day to wash his infected hand but... I am one person. It is an absolute disgrace and needs to be sorted as an emergency. If bankers can be bailed out there is no way you can tell me we can't get the majority of people off our streets.

Tories record is abysmal and their current campaign of relentless lies has done them no favours at all. What do they have to offer me or my family or my patients? nothing.

That's my stand basically. Plus a whole load of not liking my 90 year old patients lining the corridors. It's easy to say throwing money at it won't work but for a start, the NHS DOES needs some money. It's been horribly cut.

I'm not quite sure where I stand on immigration, exactly, it's good for my work but I appreciate it's more complicated than that

squid4 Granted, Labour have some good ideas. But how will they pay for it? With unlimited immigration, and when the top 5% and the profitable businesses move abroad/offshore?

Could I ask that you start a thread about the issues facing the NHS, any time from Friday onwards? With no political cheap jibes or point-scoring allowed?

I know one thing that always appalls me is the "better take them to A&E to be checked out" that's trotted out on here in response to a child having what I'd consider a very minor accident, easily treatable at home with basic first aid. I'd love to hear from someone in the know about what the real issues facing A&E are (apart from not enough money, we already know that).

Just dropping in to clear up the bar, change the barrels and refill the snacks tray.

Maybe I could have one on the house??

Squid, your money is no good in here anyway so put your purse away . You can have as much 🍷 on the house as you like (although possibly not a good idea if you are on duty again tomorrow ).

Whatever our political persuasion, we value doctors like you. We value the NHS. We all want it to work better and to be properly funded and resourced. I also think that as a country, we need to be realistic about what kind of health service we want and how much we, as taxpayers, are prepared to pay for that.

I also think a cross-party approach would be best - with lots and lots of input from medical, nursing and other paramedical staff.

After three-and-a-half years of giving my MP earache over a number of issues (mainly Brexit and Self ID), she and I now have a fairly good rapport and I would be happy to start weighing in on the side of the NHS once Thursday is over.

If she's returned, of course

And yes, I'm voting Conservative.

I am considering quitting if there's a tory majority to be perfectly honest and several of my colleagues are too. It has been so brutal the last 2 years. DP is concerned for my mental health. So many of my mates have already gone.
I mean not immediately. I'll do jan and feb. I guess.
I need some hope.
Never known morale this low. Staff crying... every day. On me usually (i cry at home)
If there's some sorta hung parliament going on friday I'd be happy to chat more. and yes, LOADS of issues other than money. Loads.
I'm not into cheap jibes, not intentional if I said them. Righteous fury on the other hand...

I don't disapprove of controlled immigration, and I know industry needs lower skilled migrants. .

This is pure anecdata but I talked earlier to my DM and her NDN is Albanian. Since this woman arrived in the UK, and I have no knowledge of her circumstances, she has has two children. Now her mum has moved here. I am not questioning that she/migrant one works hard, pays tax and is a paid up good egg, but Albania is not even an EU candidate member. A little while back, I think SingingLily suggested immigration controls should suggest we knew who was in the country and on what terms, although no restriction on leaving.

Then after Thursday, Squid, do as someone suggested upthread. Start a thread specifically about the NHS. Give us your insight. Happy to go into battle for it and to be a thorn in my MP's side if that helps.

I was public sector - police and prison services - and got worn down by the stress of it all and what felt like the futility of it all so I do understand, albeit from a different life experience.

A hung parliament would just give us more bickering about Brexit when in fact, we are facing other huge challenges that are simply being squeezed out of the political bandwidth. None of us needs that. We need clarity and direction.

I appreciate that you don't want a Tory government. Fair enough. But Labour's chances are practically zilch. A hung parliament means stasis. Try to keep going. 💐

Please do start that thread squid4

I have to compliment everyone on this thread for this very adult debate, I attribute this to the fact that we're all women and therefore don't resort to online violence when we encounter a view with which we disagree. Any men please show yourselves and blow my theory out of the water now!

In the words of Churchill, jaw, jaw is better than war, war.

“If bankers can be bailed out”

Agreed, but wasn’t that Gordon Brown?

I am just voting for SOMEONE who is ambitious and hopeful and cares

So am I

Boris

“That's my stand basically. Plus a whole load of not liking my 90 year old patients lining the corridors. It's easy to say throwing money at it won't work but for a start, the NHS DOES needs some money. It's been horribly cut.”

Which I fully respect and you are 100% entitled too. I disagree, for many reasons not least those stated above and previously. But I would never want to persuade you otherwise. It’s your vote, your experiences and your reasons. 😊

“I am just voting for SOMEONE who is ambitious and hopeful and cares

So am I

Boris”

😂🙌 loved his JCB trick earlier... 😂

The thing is XingMing most of our routine medical stuff wasn't once, so insulin, antibiotics, chemotherapy, indwelling catheters, stoma's etc. It was all once groundbreaking cutting edge stuff in its day

“I'm not quite sure where I stand on immigration, exactly, it's good for my work but I appreciate it's more complicated than that”

I agree, I’m the same mostly, but in certain contexts it certainly deserves honest discussion. Particularly when it comes to pressures on certain public services and infrastructures. 😊

Squid. I appreciate what you do as a doctor and that you think Labour is the solution to the pressures on the NHS. Fair enough. I respect your view.

But I have a small business. Together, me and my team pay income tax, business rates, corporation tax, NI etc etc. When we do well , we contribute to the NHS coffers, when we don't do well, we go broke and nobody helps us at all. You think Labour will save the NHS. I think Labour will totally fuck up the economy and many businesses will go offshore or go to the wall. And how will the NHS fare then?

So forgive me if I don't vote for the same party as you. I respect your views. Please respect mine.

squid - may I recommend a break, you do sound like you need one, and I mean that really, not sarcastically. You have the support of nearly everyone here, we're nearly all voting Tory on Thurs because of Brexit. Many here are Conservatives, quite a few aren't, don't quit nor be frightened of a Tory win on Thurs.

Nearly everyone here really does care about the NHS and wants it as a top priority, as well as dealing with homelessness and housing, education, disabilities and social care.

And of course, you're in the right place for some travel 'tips' .

...90 year old patients...

I don't want to live that long. Dignitas for the UK is a policy I'd support 100%.