The Brexit Arms. Is this Ben Elton? Is it free mulled wine and mince pies for everyone or a Corb-free Christmas 🎄?

[SingingLily]

Welcome to the Brexit Arms!

The temporary Landlady is back but worry not, all is festive good cheer with just another three days to go until we reach the Only Poll That Really Matters. Till then, the gloves are still on!

A quick recap of the events of the last week or so:

📋❓💙❤️💛⁉️💙‼️🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️😀☹️😀☹️😧😱🙄😬🤥🤔🤕🗳

Anyone of any political persuasion who is prepared to join in, eschew goadery, and enjoy a laugh, welcome. First drinks are on the house.

My SIL, had to go to another maternity ward in 2008, that was 35 miles away, because Her huge hospital (3 miles away) had closed the maternity ward again due to capacity issues.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if, on Friday morning, the PM said his first priority was to form a cross party task force - including medics - to discuss the best way forward for the NHS. Forget the politics, get things moving so that - within the available finance - the best care can be provided for everyone.

Epic the time wasters mainly fuck off cause they haven't been seen in 16 hours.

\things we have not had funding for recently. Workable IT. Pens. Chairs (many broken). Power cut for 7 hours in A&E and ITU (I know someone who did a chest drain by iphone light)

Cmon.

It would indeed have been nice if in the last 9 years teh tories had actually listened to doctors about anything.

Why are you saying c’mon.

Who are you trying to convince? I’m not disagreeing with your experiences. I’m saying, the problem has been going on for years. And I don’t believe Corbyn and his cronies will/can/or even genuinely want to resolve it. Labour have been shit at this, Tories are shit at it. What’s the answer?

I'm still here! I'm sorry. I am leaving. To drink more wine (drinking too much at the moment, everyone at work is a nervous wreck about further possibility of more tory government)

Maybe I could have one on the house??

“Wouldn't it be wonderful if, on Friday morning, the PM said his first priority was to form a cross party task force - including medics - to discuss the best way forward for the NHS. Forget the politics, get things moving so that - within the available finance - the best care can be provided for everyone.”

This. 150%

Cross-party task force would definitely be a start.

I'm 54. When I was a child, it was like Call The Midwife - doctors held a surgery in the front room of their house, there were no modern treatments/diagnostics etc. Mental health wasn't treated at all, apart from Valium and asylums.

When I walk into a modern hospital or health centre, it's like walking into the Star Trek medical lab. Obviously I hear what you're saying squid4 but even though the clarion call is "Save Our NHS!", it's clear that most voters don't think it's that bad.

I think seomthing like the labour manifesto, which sounds drastic, (but is in line with many european countries) is needed at an almost post war level of deprivation. You may disagree. But you don't seem to have an alterantive? "They're all shit" is not a brilliantly effective approach...

I am certainly not opposed to cross party work

Well. lots of voters have been in A&E recently. We're hearing them everywhere. Despite very... ugly ... attempts to discredit them and claim they're making things up.

Actually, I think it is probably not helpful to debate as I think most here have made up their minds (and only 2 days to go!) so I will respectfully bow out

I take it you read previous posts?

The consensus on this thread was that making the NHS a 'debate' and party political is the worst of all worlds & helps nothing.

So probs best to bow out really if it's a party political 'debate' you're after coz there's zero appetite for that on this thread.
It's divisive, petty & obfuscates the issue.

squid4 I'll buy you a or two!

And I think de-politicising the NHS is the way forward. With some necessarily difficult conversations about what the NHS' future role should be.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if, on Friday morning, the PM said his first priority was to form a cross party task force - including medics - to discuss the best way forward for the NHS. Forget the politics, get things moving so that - within the available finance - the best care can be provided for everyone.

Yep

I'd love for this to happen

My child lay on the floor in A&E too, so did many others. In 1996. It wasn't an uncommon or remarkable event, certainly wouldn't have made the papers.

My plan, which everyone should follow, is that we move houses of parliament up north, and there is a big round room instead of "sides" so -children politicians learn to work together.

“I think seomthing like the labour manifesto, which sounds drastic, (but is in line with many european countries) is needed at an almost post war level of deprivation. You may disagree. But you don't seem to have an alterantive? "They're all shit" is not a brilliantly effective approach...
Bookmark”

At the risk of being controversial, as I am genuinely very neutral on the topic of immigration, and I can see that it brings plenty of health care workers too, but don’t you think, that Labour, on the one hand bemoaning the NHS being in crisis and barely able to sustain current levels and numbers, yet simultaneously holding a unrestricted free movement/access for all from pretty much anywhere in the world policy is a bit disingenuous?

I mean, surely that will put yet more inordinate strain on the whole NHS structure? It wasn’t geared up to deal with or plan for unknown numbers of people in this way. How can they possibly forecast the future needs of the NHS, if they can’t anticipate who will be using it?

My plan, which everyone should follow, is that we move houses of parliament up north

You'd have to move all other departments up there too then

Seems a bit of a daft waste of money to move the whole machinery of govt north 🤷🏻‍♀️

Seconded squid4

I'm sick to death of people's lives/jobs/health being used to make cheap political points.

So, about 30% of my nurse/doctor colleauges are not British. (Though this number is plummeting as people are quitting)

About 3% of my patients are not british.

You do the maths...

(I know there are other aspects to immigration, but for the NHS, it's a no brainer)

And hear, hear Epic

Your very valid point about uncontrolled immigration takes me right back to June 2016. How can the country plan for the future, when it has no idea how many people will be living here in the next year/decade?

“My plan, which everyone should follow, is that we move houses of parliament up north, and there is a big round room instead of "sides" so -children politicians learn to work together.”

Now, that I could get behind!

There is a debate that needs to be had at sometime soon, because the situation is serious, and IMVHO it cannot be a party issue. It really, REALLY needs to be cross party, and it needs to discuss what the NHS can do, what the paid for sector of healthcare can be paid to do without compromising free to patients too much, who/where social care and care of dementia/elderly will fall. Frank Field (for whom I was a massive cheerleader) was asked to look at it but his report wasn't cheap enough to please. Likewise, the Dilnott commision. It is going to cost a great deal of money as the long lived tail of the baby boom generation get old. It was the pig in the python, as the demographers dubbed it in the 1990s. Think it's costly now: we are barely getting started.

The first generation of children post WW2 who grew up with the NHS are now geriatric but have had free lifetime medical care and decent education, so they KNOW what is going on in medical research and feel they should benefit. I occasionally feel it would be better (on a societal level) if only a few people were taught to read (joke, please).

That should have said “generally neutral” not “genuinely neutral”.

squid4 Controlled immigration is the answer, surely? Open the borders to qualified health professionals from everywhere in the world. Instead of opening the borders to anyone unqualified from the EU, on the off chance that some of them are health professionals.

It's like June 2016 all over again!