The Brexit Arms. Is this Ben Elton? Is it free mulled wine and mince pies for everyone or a Corb-free Christmas 🎄?

[SingingLily]

Welcome to the Brexit Arms!

The temporary Landlady is back but worry not, all is festive good cheer with just another three days to go until we reach the Only Poll That Really Matters. Till then, the gloves are still on!

A quick recap of the events of the last week or so:

📋❓💙❤️💛⁉️💙‼️🤷🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️😀☹️😀☹️😧😱🙄😬🤥🤔🤕🗳

Anyone of any political persuasion who is prepared to join in, eschew goadery, and enjoy a laugh, welcome. First drinks are on the house.

I imagine it was no less hard to see that under the Labour govt, squid.

So, the senior nurses and doctors I know who worked in the 90s/00s all disagree with that, and I have certainly seen it get worse year on year since 2010 when I started. It has never been like it is right now in December. Never.

I am very sorry for your loss. However family members die, it's unbearable.

“So, the senior nurses and doctors I know who worked in the 90s/00s all disagree with that,”

Tell that to my dead relatives.

Well, well, well! Just had a call from the local Labour party asking about my intention to vote on Thursday. Told him the truth - he sounded like a decent chap tbh. He said "hmmm" when I said Corbyn needed to be gone, but the tone of the "hmmm" said it all

I said the other day that I'd welcome a detailed non-political discussion on here about the future of the NHS. I know it's not really the same thing, but I rejoiced when the Bank Of England was allowed to effectively run itself without political interference. If only something similar could happen for the NHS.

How bad do things have to get?

40,000 nursing vacancies and 11,000 doctor vacancies. I remember when a missing doctor made everyone panicky and angry. Now it is routinely 3,4 missing per shift. Pulling them from other hospitals. You don't think that has an effect on patient care?

Look at the investment in the NHS, by inflation and per head not the rising raw figures. Look at the A&E waiting times. Record lows.

“He said "hmmm" when I said Corbyn needed to be gone, but the tone of the "hmmm" said it all grin”

Was it Jonathon Ashworth? 😂

It might help if Drs didn’t funnel off patients to their private practice rather than deal with the NHS waiting lists. Private practice doesn’t exist independently of the NHS. It’s the same staff, taking the tax payer funded training, hiving off a lucrative section of Can Pays and fuck the Can’t Pays.

Like I said, preaching to the choir. But don’t try and tell me that magical corbyn has all the answers, he doesn’t. It’s been in crisis for decades.

I am sorry for your loss, and I was not suggesting their care was any other than as you describe. However, the NHS is not functioning now as it was. It is a crisis. The red cross called it a humanitarian crisis 2 years ago. It's worse now.

Everyone is quitting.

Which bit of the labour manifesto with regards to the NHS do you disagree with?

What is the tory's record to defend after 9 years?

I trust neither of them with the NHS, I said that several pages ago as did others. Whilst ever it’s used by any party to cynically win votes at any cost, they are not truly addressing the issue, they are excacerbating it. A cross party, non partisan, crisis approach is what’s needed, big money numbers and unicorn sticking plasters don’t resolve the enormous structural issues.

Actually, I think it is probably not helpful to debate as I think most here have made up their minds (and only 2 days to go!) so I will respectfully bow out, hope my clarification on the oxygen mask etc was at least slightly helpful!

I sympathise massively with anyone who has lost their loved ones for any reason in hospital, and it's especially hard if you feel the care wasn't as it should be. Please, despite our political differences, don't read that as sarcastic or disingenous. I have had a very sick child (she is through treatment now) and I know how it is from the other side too.

Peace.

I'm not cyncially trying to win votes though! And Jeremy Corbyn came to our picket line when Hunt was trying push through unsafe unfair practice (which resulted in huge doctor exodus) ... so ... rightly or wrongly... we doctors feel he is on our patients' side. And not really into personality politics, main thing is the manifesto is sensible and absolutely essential right now. But as I said, prob I'm not going to change minds.

I also previously said that the tories have done as piss poor a job as Tony Blairs labour with the NHS as did others. So at least give us some credit for that... 😉

“I'm not cyncially trying to win votes though!”

Not you! 😂 Corbyn/Boris 😉

I was too young to vote for Blair but not a fan of new labour in any way and never voted labour till 2017.
However, colleagues say at least the waiting lists were low and the funding was good and care was much better! I'm very sorry this was not the case for your relatives, though.

“I sympathise massively with anyone who has lost their loved ones for any reason in hospital, and it's especially hard if you feel the care wasn't as it should be. Please, despite our political differences, don't read that as sarcastic or disingenous. I have had a very sick child (she is through treatment now) and I know how it is from the other side too.

Peace.”

Sorry to hear about your daughter. 💐 🕊

Total collapse of mental health and social care is part of the intense pressure on A&E right now

Thank you! She's fine! She's full of beans. She had cancer - it was awful

“Thank you! She's fine! She's full of beans. She had cancer - it was awful”

Ah fuck. That’s a terrible thing to go through, really sorry. So pleased she is doing well now though xxx

“However, colleagues say at least the waiting lists were low”

That does jar a bit with a lot of news reports I remember hearing and witnessing at the time. Also people were dying on trolleys in corridors. Women were giving birth in corridors due to ward closures too. A&E waiting times in the Royal Berks, were frequently 6-8 hours on a good day.

I

Which bit of the labour manifesto with regards to the NHS do you disagree with? McDonnell's funding of it, along with his other pie-in-the-sky ideas.

squid4 Most people don't see what you do. Most people don't darken the doors of a hospital, or even a doctor, from one year's end to the next. And when they do, because it's "free" they think they're actually getting a fair enough service.

There's so much that can be improved - people understanding and taking responsibility for their own health, serious questions about prolonging life at all costs, etc. Throwing money into the bottomless pit isn't the answer. Especially money that doesn't exist.

I had no health visitor after giving birth in 2000. None. She just didn’t show up.

We should start charging drunks, fraudulent use of ambulances and time wasters who go to A&E for stubbed toes and hang nails. That would solve some issues overnight!

I respectfully disagree, and so do the facts. Elective surgery has been essnetially shut down in the winter the last few years due to emergency work and the waiting lists are back to late 90s levels

A&E waiting times are worse than ever previous.

As for people taking responsibility for their own health, the problem is the GPs are broken and stretched, mental health has been decimated and social care is gone. So where do you think they go. Do you think I blame them, at the start of another nonstop unbearable shift?