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Brexit

Westminstenders: 10 day count down

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/12/2019 17:19

10 days to go...

... Wake me up when the shit show is over.

OP posts:
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37
chomalungma · 06/12/2019 08:12

The mess of the aftermath will need to be sorted out by others

I hope those new potential Conservative MPS can think ahead and see their future past 5 years.

Motheroffourdragons · 06/12/2019 08:15

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Motheroffourdragons · 06/12/2019 08:17

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thecatfromjapan · 06/12/2019 08:29

LonelyPlanetMum

Don't give too much weight to the people they showed on the television. Those people were actively sought out and shown because they would make people gasp.

Click bait mentality, really.

Honestly, I go out canvassing (when I'm well enough!) and those people are not representative.

Generally, people struggling know exactly who is responsible for the pain. Sadly, those in most need often find it hard to vote. We give them the postal vote form - but even that is often a struggle.

If your child has had no school place for 3 years because of cuts to SEND provision, and you are on the 4th floor of a block of flats, you are dealing with so much, 24 hours of the day, even filling in that postal vote and sending it off slips down your list of 'must do', however much you care.

So - don't get cross with the vulnerable.

I worry that this is one of the reasons we were shown these people.

I think you're pretty unlucky with your rellies!

But, you know, as we discussed on here ages ago, there is something about bubbles, networks and locations at play in this awful Brexit business.

People talk about politics with those around them, and construct politics from a mix of abstraction and lived experience.

So, if they are surrounded by Brexit supporters, or crowds of their friends are wimbling in about switching from Labour to Johnson to get Brexit done, they are likely to get swept up in it and do the same.

Heavens, I work in schools, and it's fascinating to watch the most bizarre 'crazes' sweep the playground.

Adults are just the same - but sadly we have crazes about things that are far more serious than those squashy toys, or key-rings.

For balance, I have no close relatives or friends who voted Leave or would vote Conservative. That's just the way with statistics.

And, lastly, if we couldn't persuade people to vote against their direct self-interest, there would be no politics. People would be born into a particular politico-social position and stay there, forever.

But people are persuadable. Altruism and a sense of justice are very strong factors in many people's social make-up.

Sadly, that plays out in all sorts of ways.

We really are up against a very powerful media. It's depressing but true. It's no surprise that many, many people aren't as massively informed as they need to be for this GE.

I've never known a GE like it, where a sophisticated understanding of. Implied issues is actually a necessity for a fully informed vote.

And it's no surprise that many people are going to the polls woefully under-informed.

It's an incredibly unusual situation. We're really not geared up for this. And why should we be? Why should you need GCSE-levels in information in an arcane subject just to put your X in a box? It's never been like that before.

People are voting in Brexit, in a re-writing if our legal-political system (p.48); in their views of the future of a transformed neo-liberal capitalist system in hyper-drive.

It's incredible stuff.

We would need to have set up hedgeRow schools and worker education sessions to produce the mass political literacy required for this.

When you think about it, it's amazing that so many people are informed - have made the huge effort to inform themselves.

So ... have faith and have love.

Give what you can of your heart and abilities - but feed your own fire to keep it burning.

People have fought back from worse.

Women's suffrage was impossible before it happened.

The Tolpuddle martyrs resisted with no guarantee of the future we now inhabit.

Martin Luther King bent reality to give birth to his dream.

Never, ever fail to believe that people can hope for better - and that hope can force reality to a better shape.

KeithPartridge · 06/12/2019 08:47

I think if the Tories get in I will be grieving for the lost opportunity to completely change the lives of people and to change the country for the better. It isn't just that the Tories will make lives so much worse and there will be so much despair, but that with Labour we could make it better. Once this chance goes next week, I am not sure it will ever come back.

thecatfromjapan · 06/12/2019 08:50

Yes, Keith. I think this is so true.

But it's a complicated thing to explain and it's actually well down the list of complicated things this GE is about.

But, yes, I really feel that way too.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/12/2019 08:52

Thanks thecat - very measures and wise.

I suppose it is too easy to focus on people on the tv/media and from your own circle that are more vulnerable or in need and yet actively support Faragist views or the shifted Conservative/ERG callous vision.

It is the others you need to focus on to stop your soul hardening.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/12/2019 08:53

Measured not measures

thecatfromjapan · 06/12/2019 08:54

I think this GE is perhaps our last chance to turn the UK away from an incredibly destructive version of capitalism, wherein wealth is being sucked out of the system to a strata of the hyper-wealthy.

The old model of a middle class is being destroyed. We're liking at something that is like the creation of pre-Revolutionary France. It's quite, quite extraordinary.

And this is possibly our last chance to resist that at a national level.

But how on earth do you begin to explain that to people?

thecatfromjapan · 06/12/2019 08:55

Oh, I feel just the way you do, linelyplanetmum, at least 5 times a day.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/12/2019 08:57

Yes at least 5 times a day. And that's a switch as I didn't three years ago.

RedToothBrush · 06/12/2019 09:02

I hope those new potential Conservative MPS can think ahead and see their future past 5 years.

Yes they can. 5 years in government and then a cushy advisory role in the corporate sector on £££££ lobbying.

OP posts:
BackInTime · 06/12/2019 09:07

@Motheroffourdragons I feel the same it is so disheartening but sadly there are so many 'I'm all right Jacks' willing to turn the other cheek and ignore the homeless, the children going hungry and the threat to the NHS. It's all because they feel Jeremy Corbyn is more of a threat to their lifestyles.

Motheroffourdragons · 06/12/2019 09:23

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KeithPartridge · 06/12/2019 09:31

It is so sickening. My family is very fortunate...my DH is a high earner, I have a part time job and I have inherited property. But I can't ignore the profound empathy I feel for people...I have worked in the community sector for twenty years. I have worked with the homeless, ex offenders, single parents...at work right now we are putting together twenty five hampers for families at Christmas now, in the local area who are struggling so much. They are barely existing. Staff are simply buying the things ourselves. I can't forgive Tory voters. They have done and are doing this to people.

DryIce · 06/12/2019 09:46

@BackInTime I honestly don't understand this, and not in a naive idealistic way.

Even at the most selfish level, it doesn't benefit me to live in a society with high levels of crime and poverty. South Africa has separate gated communities and all the extra money you spend fortifying your own homes!

And unless you're extremely wealthy, having to pay for your own healthcare or health insurance is going to be far more of a financial burden that a few % tax savings. Ditto private school

Peregrina · 06/12/2019 09:51

That's it though, isn't it DryIce - the Rees-Mogg's and Johnson's of the world are extremely wealthy, so health care and education are chicken feed to them.

As for owning the shit-show that is Brexit, for them it won't be one for them - they will have pulled the UK into the orbit of the US and will then clear off there if it suits them. I wonder if Johnson will be able to reclaim his American citizenship?

WeshMaGueule · 06/12/2019 09:51

What I don't understand is why people don't understand that society is much nicer for everyone when half of our fellow humans aren't living shit lives.

Peregrina · 06/12/2019 09:54

What I don't understand is why people don't understand that society is much nicer for everyone when half of our fellow humans aren't living shit lives.

I think those of us who have a conscience will have to hang onto that thought.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/12/2019 09:56

I can't forgive Tory voters. They have done and are doing this to people.

But the thing I'm now grappling with is the intransigence of the recipients who are having stuff done to them and still vote Tory. Because you know Brexit will be grrrrreat.

UltimateFoole · 06/12/2019 09:57

Thank you Cat for your post of 08.29 and for the level-headed grit you have shown throughout these threads. Your example has inspired me to do what I can for what I believe in.

It's heartbreaking reading on here just now. Because so much of it chimes with what I am thinking and feeling.

This from Keith "Once this chance goes next week, I am not sure it will ever come back."

From Cat "The old model of a middle class is being destroyed. We're looking at something that is like the creation of pre-Revolutionary France. It's quite, quite extraordinary."

And these thoughts from lonelyplanetmum andCamomila

"After the victory I'm going to come to terms with it - by embracing some of the new Tory dream. ….putting me and my family and our survival first."

"My overwhelming feeling is 'fine, DH and I will work harder, have less money/spare time, but the DC will be fine.'

And of course, once we let our souls be overtaken by the dismal thought that we must work only for our own survival - then the wrongness has total victory. So, no. No to that, however long we have to keep the flame burning in the dark.

DryIce · 06/12/2019 09:57

I don't mean them, @Peregrina, I am sadly resigned to their utter lack of care.

I mean the electorate! The somewhere around 40% of the country who for some reason seem to be set on voting Tory

TheABC · 06/12/2019 09:58

The problem is, Tory voters don't see themselves as the bad guys. They think they are perfectly reasonable in wanting a low-tax society and think it's other people's fault in struggling to live. On top of that is the assumption the Tories will not sell off the NHS as they have never done it before.

The only comfort is that the majority of them are older NHS users and the anger, when it does happen, is going to the epic.

I still think it will be a minority Tory/ hung Parliament. It's too volatile to assume a large majority.

derxa · 06/12/2019 09:59

Yes they can. 5 years in government and then a cushy advisory role in the corporate sector on £££££ lobbying. I would agree with that one.

Peregrina · 06/12/2019 10:04

I still think it will be a minority Tory/ hung Parliament.

I very very much hope so! I keep reminding myself about the last election, where we heard about the huge Tory majority and constant anti-Corbyn stuff. DB went to a Corbyn rally then and said it was packed out, standing room only. Not surprisingly, his seat went Labour.

Yes they can. 5 years in government and then a cushy advisory role in the corporate sector on £££££ lobbying.

Yup, like Cameron, although apparently bored shitless because he's no longer important, still doesn't want for money.