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Brexit

Westminstenders: Register to Vote

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/11/2019 21:25

The closing date for registration is this Tuesday

The weekend has seen the leaders question time debates.

Johnson failed to answer a question and the BBC edited later edited footage to change laughter at him to applause.

Swinson continues to prove that the Lib Dem campaign planners don't understand the electorate. They based the campaign around her and the more the public see her and the more she opens her gob she proves she's the witless headgirl who really knows fuck all.

Corbyn has now adopted a neutral 2nd referendum position. Far too late.

Jo Johnson apparently said that a good election manifesto is one people aren’t talking about 48 hrs later, and it seems that the Conservatives really have gone for that strategy.

Johnson had promised a manifesto for change yet of the three main parties it seems far from that. It avoids controversy for the most part, but also doesn't offer solutions to some of our biggest problems like social care. But with the Tories so ahead in the polls, the status quo and making sure they don't have a repeat of the 'dementia tax' car crash seems to be the order of the day. Because Brexit is going to going to provide a magic solution instead...

Meanwhile the Labour Party have gone completely the other way and really have gone for it and come up with ideas. With a mixed response from the public and press.

And I still can't tell you what is in the LD one, cos Prince Andrew...

This week should see the election come into focus as postal voting starts. As it stands its hard to bet on anything but a Tory majority.

OP posts:
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mrslaughan · 27/11/2019 13:23

@mother
I am really uncomfortable about saying this - as it is just an observation from friends I have had for years , and also of years living in NYC. From my observation there has been a conserted effort by the state of Israel to link loyalty to Israel very closely with being part of religious belief. So I can see how - as many of my Jewish friends have- that they have become conditioned to believe that any criticism of Israel in terms of its actions - is an attack of there religious beliefs.

I have never said Israel should not exist. But the Palestinians deserve the same rights with regards to property ownership and self governance that the Isreali's do. Their beliefs do not trump others.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 13:26

Anti-semitism and racism are rightly illegal

However, people have the legal right to claim that any country shouldn't exist, whether that be Israel, the UK, Spain, North Macedonia, Iraq etc

They have the right to advocate splitting away from a country, or expanding their country to neighbouring territories

Any collection of people, whether in a political party or not, has the right to discuss such topics under freedom of speech guaranteed by the ECHR
and to lobby for their preferred outcome

That doesn't mean their view is even practical and of course they can be criticised, but it doesn't of itself mean they are racist.

What must always be illegal is to say that the way to achieve this is to oppress or harm large numbers of those who share the same religion or ethnic background

Israel was created because of the Holocaust - which was a genocide carried out by Europeans, not Palestinians
Should Palestinian supporters be banned from demanding they be given back the land that was taken from them because of European genocide ?

I don't support their demands, but imo they are not anti-semitic to say this
It is natural to resent being made poor and stateless, to want to reverse this

Imagine how we'd feel if we were descended from Brits who were displaced and rendered penniless because it was our land given to someone else like this

mrslaughan · 27/11/2019 13:30

There has been discussion for years now the stripping of residency rights of Palestinians who for instance live in Israel. Many who accepted the creation of a Jewish state and who stayed.
So no - not all Isreali's are Jewish, but the vast majority are.

LouiseCollins28 · 27/11/2019 13:31

Very interesting article there MShip, thank you. I agree with barely a word of it, particularly on the hypothetical moral problem posed but it was a good read.

Oakenbeach · 27/11/2019 13:35

Two things that today that would unsettle me if I was a Tory:

  1. Voter registrations are way up on 2017, with a disproportionate number of young people registering.... www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/register-vote-deadline-record-young-labour-general-election-a9219391.html%3famp

  2. YouGov’s detailed constituency level poll set to be published tonight at 10pm.... Unless it shows an overwhelming Tory majority, it will doubtless be used to hone anti-Tory tactical voting decisions where there is currently doubt, when in previous elections there was no such tool.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 13:35

The treatment of Jews in other Middle East countries is why I think a one-state solution would be disastrous

If their neighbours were like fluffy ME Scandinavians my views would be different

However, Israel should return to their original pre-1967 borders, as called for by umpteen UN resolutions,
once their safety can be ensured by a powerful neutral military force from e.g. UN or even NATO troops being based there for the forseeable future

For decades now, no Israeli govt have any real incentive to negotiate peace, because the hard right in the USA guarantees they can do as they wish

Clavinova · 27/11/2019 13:37

My 6 yr old son is at primary in a heavily deprived area of the Paris suburbs (think where the riots were a few years back). Every single kid in his class last year had French as an additional language, he was one of just two white kids in the class.This year, the year they learn to read, his class size has been halved to twelve. If f... Emmanuel Macron, who is hardly a screaming leftie, can do this, why can't the UK?

For this reason?

"June 2019 France's has slipped further into the red, the national statistics bureau said on Friday, only days after the country's public auditor warned of "worrying" debt levels."

"Public debt rose to 99.6 percent of gross domestic product in the first quarter of the year, the Insee bureau said, widening the gulf between the eurozone's 60 percent of GDP debt limit and the French reality."

"France is now 43.6 billion euros ($49.6 billion) deeper in hock than at the end of 2018, when the debt to GDP ratio stood at 98.4 percent."

"France's public auditor warned that the country's debt level was "worrying" and urged the government to control spending."

"France has been bucking the downward debt trend seen in most other eurozone countries after Macron loosened the country's purse strings to try end months of often violent "yellow vest" protests."

"In a report, the Cour des Comptes said the growing divergence between France and its neighbours on debt reduction "could lead to a deterioration of the perceived quality of France's debt among investors"."

www.france24.com/en/20190628-france-sinks-deeper-debt

Oakenbeach · 27/11/2019 13:38

Thanks Pam

mybrainhurtsalot · 27/11/2019 13:39

Latest Conservative leaflet.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 13:40

"YouGov’s detailed constituency level poll set to be published tonight at 10pm"

Yep, crossing fingers & toes over this

Important to see regional and even local variations

Clavinova · 27/11/2019 13:43

"Corbyn busy outlining 451 pages of unredacted detail of US/UK trade talks to journalists and NHS staff."
"Full documents look to be up on Guido."

Indeed they are;

"The real bombshell is these documents do prove Corbyn lied to the audience during the TV debate, when he supposedly read from the documents showed an offer of “full market access for US products”– these documents prove no such phrase exists."

Ellie56 · 27/11/2019 13:46

I had a You Gov questionnaire today mostly about sport Hmm then a question about how important it was to me to vote (very) who I would vote for (Labour) and another about what would cause the most damage to our country. (Tory Brexit)

That told them.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 13:49

UK debt has continued to rise under austerity

The UK shares only with Greece a high decrease în real wages (purchasing power) since the Global Financial crisis
and the austerity policy is thought to be a major factor in this

Keynesian economic theory would have been to relax spending during such a time,
as e.g. Obama did, with success

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MockersFactCheckMN · 27/11/2019 13:49

But the Israeli state was created after the second world war for and by the Jewish people...

In one sense. It would also be accurate to say that it was created by the United Nations, meaning its legitimacy is beyond reproach.

And let us remember Johnathan Miller who has died. In Beyond The Fringe he explained: "I'm not a jew, just jew-ish. Don't want to go the whole hog."

Icantreachthepretzels · 27/11/2019 13:52

This lady is more genteel than filthy piece of towrag woman in her takedown ... but she is just as hilarious.

twitter.com/Lewis_North90/status/1199682310683201536

'I can't bear the buffoon ... I call him a buffoon.'

MockersFactCheckMN · 27/11/2019 13:54

people have the legal right to claim that any country shouldn't exist.

No. They absolutely do not. The United Nations Charter is clear. All people have a right to self-determination, and all member nations are legitimate, although they may occupy territory that is the product of colonialism or war whose final status can only be resolved by negotiation and agreement in accordance with the principle of self-determination. In the case of Israel this means it is entirely legitimate within its pre-1967 borders.

Clavinova · 27/11/2019 13:58

BigChocFrenzy
Your chart shows wage growth from 2007 - 2015.

March 2018;

"Jeremy Corbyn has said Brexit will put a stop to firms "importing cheap labour" to undercut the wages of UK workers."

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/93495/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-will-stop-cheap

Icantreachthepretzels · 27/11/2019 14:01

This is a good piece from Lewis Goodall about the anger of usual tory voters in the home counties

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1199676338019414016

And I'm glad to see #notforsale is now trending number one on twitter - I nearly despaired earlier when I checked and the whole trending list was Wednesday Wisdoms and Gary Rhodes (although that is very sad). I'm glad the story has now found some purchase.

I don't know what I'm hoping to see in tonight's Yougov poll - a big tory majority will be too depressing but at the same time I worry if labour look to be doing well people will get complacent. There's two weeks to go and we need to keep up the fight.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 14:05

"these documents prove no such phrase exists."

No document would specifically say this, or that the UK must bend over
"Full market access" could be the likely practical result of the series of concessions the US would demand

Donald Trump has stated that the NHS will be 'on the table' in a post-Brexit deal

From the USA Trade Dept: United States-United Kingdom Negotiations
Summary of Specific Negotiating Objectives

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/SummaryoffU.S.-UKNegotiatinggObjectives.pdf

On investment, the US objective in negotiation of the UK-US trade deal is to:
‘reduce or eliminate barriers to U.S. investment in all sectors in the UK’’

Similarly, on government procurement, the US wishes to:

‘increase opportunities for U.S. firms to sell U.S. products and services to the UK’,
while simultaneously restricting access for the UK
(for example, through keeping domestic preferential purchasing programs at state and local government levels).

The US document also attempts to regulate the UK’s relationship with third countries!

For example, it would constrain the UK’s ability to sign a trade deal with China by creating a mechanism to:

‘take appropriate action if the UK negotiates a free trade agreement with a non-market country’.

To preserve its commercial partnerships with Israel, the US states that one of its objectives is to:

‘discourage actions that directly or indirectly prejudice or otherwise discourage commercial activity solely between the United States and Israel’.

< code for making it illegal for UK firms to follow the anti-Israel boycott >

bellinisurge · 27/11/2019 14:05

Thank you for taking the time to look up and post that article @TheMShip . I'm not Jewish. My late dad was. I have, therefore, Jewish close family. I also have close Jewish family through a sibling's marriage .
I am not prepared to throw them under a bus in the hope of "making amends" in the future. I'm sure most reasonable people do not cosy up to the worst kind of bastards for a photo opportunity. They care about the NHS, education, housing, the economy . All the things decent people care about when making their voting choice. It's just that Corbyn has shown terrible personal judgment by cosying up to some real bastards who are a direct explicit threat to my loved ones AND has not intervened to protect Jewish MPs , presumably because he disagrees with them on policy matters.
If he puts photo opportunities and cool points over protecting and respecting one group as the Opposition party leader, who is to say he won't do that as PM.

Apileofballyhoo · 27/11/2019 14:06

Imagine how we'd feel if we were descended from Brits who were displaced and rendered penniless because it was our land given to someone else like this

Reminds me of somewhere not so far away. Like Northern Ireland, people just want to live their lives being treated the same as all the other people regardless of background. Extremism breeds extremism. If you leave people with nothing to lose, they don't give a shit if they die fighting.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/11/2019 14:07

"Your chart shows wage growth from 2007 - 2015."

Yes, I don't have a later chart comparing all those coubtries

All countries suffered wrt wages for a couple of years after the financial crisis, but the others then started seeing real wages growth, which has continued

We didn't

LouiseCollins28 · 27/11/2019 14:14

Keynesian economic theory also recommends saving when times are good to allow for the spending in leaner times, this is the bit everyone forgets!

MockersFactCheckMN · 27/11/2019 14:15

Imagine how you'd feel if you were descended from people expelled from their homeland and forced into exile for nigh on two thousand years.

It's either a principle or it isn't.

dreichthanksgiving · 27/11/2019 14:15

Imagine how we'd feel if we were descended from Brits who were displaced and rendered penniless because it was our land given to someone else like this

Or maybe to sheep?

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