Westminstenders: Manifesto or Bust?

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party aren't doing one.

The Labour Party apparently can't afford theirs.

The Conservatives will just lie anyway.

And the LDs got upstaged by Prince Andrew's resignation from royal duties for being a fuckwit.

3 weeks to go...

"Would the Brexit referendum have been lost at all if Corbyn had been a normal Labour leader, not a closet Lexiteer "

That's something that angered many of us in the centre especially, who supported Remain and we've repeatedly posted so
With such a narrow Leave victory, any bog-standard Labour leader would have swung the crucuial few per cent

So we could have avoided the entire Brexit shitshow,
Cameron would have stayed in office and the hard right would not have had a shell-shocked political vaccum to move into and take over the Tory party.

It is a Tory Brexit, Cameron's irresponsible party politics in calling a ref, but Corbyn just rolled over and bared Labour's tummy to the hard right Brexiters

As it is, many Labour Leavers and waverers felt free to vote Leave and of course have battened down since on their decision

Despite all the claims of his supporters, several in the Labour Remain campaign say his team actively blocked & hindered them

Corbyn himself was very lack lustre and obviously only did the reluctant minimum of campaigning

• look at the contrast when it's something he actively wants, e.g. 2017 & 2019 GEs, campaigning to get his dim arse elected - he's hardly a brilliant campaigner, but at least he can put in the effort when he actually wants to.

The guy abusing the Jewish dad and his kid on the tube appeared to be a fundamentalist Christian with mental health issues. Putting a right/left spin on this just screams "I'm a partisan and I'm going to milk this".

Many years ago in London I used to live next door to a guy with serious mental health problems who used to go outside and "direct" the traffic, naked, while ranting about Jews killing Jesus. His behaviour was only a "political" issue in the sense that he was a victim of Thatcherite "care" in the community. This particular sort of antisemitic behaviour is reprehensible but it isn't new, it isn't political, and I doubt it is on the increase.

I think the tories have most to fear from an "act of God"

You mean like an early December ice storm and the over stretched NHS fracture clinics being full of their core voters?

You mean like an early December ice storm and the over stretched NHS fracture clinics being full of their core voters?

Yes - that sort of thing.

Might be one reason the Tories were so keen on getting the election out of the way: before flu and snow have a chance to break the NHS.

Some voters will have things they won't forgive a party - and some things shouldn't be forgiven:

. Labour and ignoring anti-semitism
. Tories and anti-semitism, the PM deliberately using Islamophobia & racism as a vote-winner "joking, freedom of speech", dirty tricks, UC ....
. LDems and the student debt that burden their kids
. all parties deciding a bloke can become a woman and must be let into single sex spaces

British politics has not been so toxic since we had a bloody civil war

so if you saw a mural with an obviously antisemitic image on it, you'd think it ok too.

No I wouldn't.

And given that I praised the amazing brave woman in a hijab that intervened, I have no idea why you think I don't see how Muslims are treated in this country or how fantastic she was.

Not sure what your point is here. On the wider issue Johnson has form for playing to a certain audience with his comments e.g "letterboxes". Corbyn has spent a lifetime campaigning against injustice. Last week a photo of JC at an anti aparthied rally was doctored with the word racist. That sort of nasty shit isn't going to convince me that JC is part of the problem.

WASPI women are of the age demographic that should be majority Tory
and those mostly dependent on the State Pension will suffer

It depends if they are mostly Labour voters - in which case, lost anyway

If the tories find they lose a significant number of their own votes from this group, then I expect BJ to U-turn,
but more likely after this GE, in good time before the next, so those voters are grateful for a large bung

The sums involved are large, but but not compared to the damage Brexit will do to the economy after a minimum FTA or No Deal

• and that kind of Brexit would only be done for party political / ideology reasons.

I'm not putting a left/right spin on that twat. Why do you think only right wing people despise antisemitism? He yelled abuse at a child. I also don't put his mental health needs above the protection of a child from verbal abuse.
Yes, both issues need addressing.

The Tories didn't win the last election.

I find it interesting, always, that Brexit is so often spoken of as "Conservative Brexit",when both Cameron and May made no secret of opposing the idea of leaving the EU.

Cameron ran away and May did her level best to appease the ERG. So this is a Tory Brexit. A Labour Brexit would probably be a Norway plus type agreement, which a significant number of Remainers even would be able to say OK to - not as good at present, but something they can live with.

bellinisurge
Many of you are prepared to stomach Corbyn or pretend it's just a minor issue that the people directly affected by it are over egging because that are all Tories or some other deluded crapThat's your call. Not mine.

And some of us are Jewish, find anti-Semitism disgusting and threatening, but feel it is actually not the only thing to be said or seen about the Labour Party. Also that it exists in the Conservatives too, though not as much as anti-Islamism, and in neither as much as in the Brexit company and in UKIP as a proportion of the members of those groups.

It also exists among people who are not members of any party, and don't even vote; I don't myself want to be identified with those either.

Yep, the Tory Brexit we will get will almost certainly be a very hard one, or No Deal after transition, so the most damaging to the economy.

A Labour Brexit would be a soft one, much less damaging, which many Remainers would grudgingly accept, even if not the most hardcore minority.
And of course, there wouldn't be a bonfire of workers rights, more benefit cuts, trying to kill off the NHS etc

all parties deciding a bloke can become a woman and must be let into single sex spaces Jo Swinson used the term 'cis women' on Andrew Marr this morning. She's a bloody idiot. Angela Rayner defending Labour's equally stupid stance on this issue earlier on the same programme.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime I entirely agree it's a cross party problem. That and self-ID. They are all as bad as each other.
I have a pressing eco issue in my constituency too. Which the sitting Labour MP is on the other side of. If I wasn't, I would consider holding my nose.
I can't and I won't.
And no amount of "don't you care about the NHS/poverty/whatever else reason that apparently didn't stop people voting for Brexit " will change that.

That's your call. Not mine.

We can expect that in a Brexit recession, the Tories and Faragists would be looking for scapegoats
They certainly aren't going to admit their Brexit is a toxic fuck-up

Some already are into Soros conspiracy theories
So expect much more of the same - conspiracies by a "Jewish elite" as blame diversion has a long track record

And some of us are Jewish, find anti-Semitism disgusting and threatening, but feel it is actually not the only thing to be said or seen about the Labour Party. Also that it exists in the Conservatives too, though not as much as anti-Islamism, and in neither as much as in the Brexit company and in UKIP as a proportion of the members of those groups.

Labour as a party does by and large deserve the criticism it has received, but I think that it is very unfortunate that the issue has become politicised to the point that people with a record of public antisemitic comments are siding with the Jewish community purely because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

It is in many respects reminiscent of the trans issue, which has involved feminists making common cause with homophobes and anti-choice activists who happen to stand on the same side of this one issue.

The bloke on the train was pushing "Blacks are the true children of Israel" wasn't he? That's 'Nation of Islam' stuff isn't it?

Yes, Baloney.

And, BigChoc, I think you are absolutely correct wrt Soros conspiracies and scapegoats.

I'm guessing anyone progressive, ie. 'metropolitan elite' (who aren't really elite) is in for a scary time, too.

Is Nation of Islam still around? I remember someone at university trying to persuade me of its merits a gazillion years ago.

The pushback on women's rights, advanced through a conceptualisation of 'individual choice' (think pregnancy rights, help for careers, pensions) is going to be grim af.

All wrapped up by hammering progressives.

I have a pressing eco issue in my constituency too. Which the sitting Labour MP is on the other side of.

There is a pressing eco issue in my constituency too. Both the sitting Tory MP and the LD candidate are on (IMO) the wring side of it. But I will hold my nose and vote LD as they have the best (if very slim) chance of unseating the Tory.

You need to pick your battles.

Thanks for patronising me. I have picked my battle.

I am watching with a certain amount of detachment. It's particularly interesting how many marginal seats are being targeted across Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Scotland in particular could make or break a Tory majority.

Would Sturgeon do a deal with Johnson in return for Indyref 2?

My lord, if my MP turns up at my door, I might push her down the chimney of the giant incinerator she has done nothing to prevent being built. Sadly, most people will still voted for her. Pretty sure, Lab have not done much to oppose it either. I have decided local issues aren't worth it in a national election, I suppose.