Westminstenders: The Non-Pact Pact

[RedToothBrush]

The Brexit Party and the Conservatives have agreed a trumpian pact to no deal. Led by the ERG.

They don't want you to know its a pact because the Conservatives still want One Nation Conservatives types to believe they are still One Nation Conservatives, simply because they say they are. They are not.

The Brexit Party won't stand any candidates in a Conservative held seat. But don't be surprised if there isn't more Non-Pact tactical stepping aside. This of course won't be a Pact. Cos the Brexit Party say its not. And the Conservative Party say its not.

The Liberal Democrats, Plaid and the Greens are in an electoral pact. They say they are in an electoral pact and have published a list.

Meanwhile the Labour Party isn't in a Pact. But there is still talk that in key seats that someone (either the LDs or Labour) should stand aside to try and deseat key Conservatives. This won't happen because the Lib Dems and Labour are not in a pact. And when they say they are not in a pact they aren't.

If after an election we have a hung parliament then either the Conservatives or Labour who are not in a pact and say they will never be in a pact, will try and woo someone to a kingmaker and be in government with them, probably on a supply and demand basis rather than coalition. They'll deny this but we kind of know how this goes...

I think the LDs do have to be careful not to deter Tory switchers more generally, but Canterbury specifically was a mistake nevertheless (moderate strong remain sitting Labour MP). They should have just gone quiet or left it to the local party (which doesn't want to put up a candidate). Parachuting someone from elsewhere not terribly wise in the circumstances.

Jo Swinson doing herself no favours whatsoever.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1194622456436183043

@Mistigirl

I’d have been tempted to stay quiet if I were them, and say it was too late to find someone, but that would have been a risk and probably a weakness on my part...

At least no one can accuse them of being Corbyn acolytes now!.... and that will probably be most of a boost to them, and their and ultimately the Remain cause, than this incident in Canterbury.

Lol Arse

I think that would be fine for any other election Oaken. And, this is just me, but I'm so desperate for a non Tory majority. Anything that hinders that, anything that underlines the likelihood of waking up day after the election to 5 unfettered years of Tory/Johnson rule is terrifying.

Parties and some candidates from all sides are not seeming to do everything they can to stop this. And have not sorted themselves out over some months.

Also, Labour are continuing to stand in plenty of LD marginals... I don’t see why it’s only the LDs who are being demonised by those determined to make an issue out of this.

Somehow the Swinson-haters can never seem to answer the question of how many seats Labour is standing down in for the sake of the Remain cause...

But disaffected Tories in Canterbury who would never vote Labour, might vote LibDem and siphon a few useful votes away from the Tory candidate. That is what getting Greens and PC to stand candidates down is all about. It's not forced to work the way the parties want, the electorate are free to vote for whoever they wish on the ballot paper.

@placemats

Have to agree... Her stridency and pig-headedness is doing her no favours.... If only Vince had hung on! Labour are clearly not a “leave” party - muddled, perhaps, but “leave”?!?. To suggest that is ridiculous.

I wish she’d just focus on getting the vote out and stop criticising the other parties. This really isn’t helping.

placemats link shows that Swinson is not accepting that her stance will not enable us to remain either. Certainly, not to get a sensible exit. That is why I think the LibDem's current dogma is extreme.

I would have thought most dyed in the wool remainers would want remain, secondly a soft Brexit etc etc. I could well be entirely wrong here.

I know that it has been decreed that Labour is now a Remain party, but after the last election, it was very, very galling to hear that 80% of people voted for parties which supported Brexit.

I would like to know how many Labour candidates support Remain.

I think that would be fine for any other election Oaken. And, this is just me, but I'm so desperate for a non Tory majority. Anything that hinders that, anything that underlines the likelihood of waking up day after the election to 5 unfettered years of Tory/Johnson rule is terrifying.

But by allying the LDs with Labour and standing down in their favour, risks damaging their position and the Remain cause more broadly, whilst having a negligible actual impact in Canterbury.

If the former prospective LD candidate isn’t saying this, then virtually no one else is going to be saying “Well, I was going to vote Labour as I can see they are best placed to defeat the Tories in Canterbury... But oh no, I can’t, there’s a LD standing so I must now vote for them!”

I don't like Swinson. But I explicitly said I would feel the same in a Tory/LibDem marginal re the Labour candidate. If I felt that the LibDems were more likely to vote out the Tory here I would vote for them. But I've not seen evidence of that yet.

I'm not specifically talking about Canterbury though Oaken

It brings back to my mind that, in dealing with the LibDems in my personal experience , they see the enemy as Labour.

I think some LibDems do see Labour as the enemy. I wonder myself if they are the ones who came from the SDP.

What do long-standing LibDems think of Swinson and her stance anyone know anecdotally?

I've not been on the last few threads as I struggle to keep up. My reading speed is slower than your posting speed.
I just wanted to tell how happy I am. I am a British citizen since yesterday and registered to vote straight away. I'm glad it turned out like this in the end, all done and dusted.

congratulations Peachi82

Congratulations Peachi82 and no matter who you feel obliged to vote for I'm glad that you are taking part in the process

Prem Sikka
@premnsikka
·
1m
Another unlawful policy of the UK govt: The supreme court rules against the government’s attempts to force the bedroom tax on 155 partners of people with severe disabilities.
Do Boris Johnson and his Tory gang ever tire of promoting unlawful practices?

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/13/uk-government-loses-supreme-court-fight-over-bedroom-tax

I know someone living in Watford who is essentially a Tory but chooses LibDems. She is an ardent remain voter. Remain United says to vote Labour. She wont though.

great news peachi well done and I hope it works out for you.

In my area (fucking Damian Collins) the LDs have traditionally come second, but all the voting sites are telling me to go Lab. Can't quite work that one out, but as it will be either Lab or LD for me I guess I've got another 4 weeks to decide, depending on who fucks up the most/least.

DH will prob go LD as he can't stomach Lab, the DDs will follow tactical voting advice I think.

Congratulations Peachi82

I know someone else who got their citizenship yesterday as well.

The Bureau
@TBIJ
· 2h
BREAKING: The Bureau of Investigative Journalism has launched an urgent legal challenge aimed at forcing the government to publish the report examining alleged Russian interference in British politics
crowdjustice.com/case/releasetherussiareport