Westminstenders: The end of tribalism

[RedToothBrush]

There are signs that traditional party alignment might well have broken.

The Tories have split, labour are pretending they have not.

The pattern so far seems to be closely following the EU. This favours a Tory majority.

A long way to go.

Has anyone on these threads - or MN in general - supported such views ?

Not those ones, but its a slippery continum. As the IHRA Definition explains.

Housing is a massive issue.

If I were smart, I would be writing a book about the 'New Enclosures: The new politics of housing in the C21' right now.

We haven't even begun the discussion we need about housing and how it is transforming the class system, funnelling money to the mega-rich, being used for money-laundering, re-shaping our ability to politically engage - and how it interacts with the impoverishment of the public sector (particularly around elder care).

Housing is a massive issue,

Schools should teach children to obey authority!

From the link;
"An overwhelming majority of Conservative members (84%) believe schools should (focus) on teaching kids to obey authority.Just 31% of Labour members and 38% of Lib Dems and SNP members agree."

This is a bit misleading - they don't mention that slightly more Lib Dem members (approx 33%) said they strongly agree that schools should teach children to obey authority than Conservative members (approx 31%), the strongly agree group for SNP members was approx 30% as well.

Oh thats ok then

No doubt you’re aware just how weak your argument is.

So you think that calling an innocent man an anti-semite in a national newspaper is ok? Dont you think that a journalist is such a position shouldnt do some due diligence in reporting something?

Id say that should call into question anything he's previously wrote and will go on to write

On the boomer issue, I fall (just) into the boomer age range. I have never owned property in my life, I am a remainer and a socialist (voting LD tactically this time). I have nothing in common with the so-called typical boomer...

Schools should teach children to obey authority!

DF could give some tips - teach your class "..the way Mussolini used to do..."

(It works better in a faux Dolmio-day accent)

Denial of the holocaust and of AS are not the same thing, although they may be found on a continuum as pp observed.

Climate change deniers, racism deniers - do you also object to those phrases too?

"The man who mistook two people of the same name, one of whom had been fined for comments on FB.

If you’re hoping that devalidates his POV you’re wrong."

It doesn't invalidate his view but it does suggest something else quite troubling to me. It's pretty racist for a serious commentator with a big audience to mix up two Muslims with the same name because he can't be troubled to do due diligence. It's "they're all the same" writ large.

It worries me that our two parties could become the parties of antisemitism and islamophobia respectively. This is not good for anyone and certainly not for Jews and Muslims.

Meanwhile, if you want to crack a small smile ...

www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/10/wetherspoon-tim-martin-brexit-leave-agm-corporate-governance

Wetherspoons shareholders call time on pro-Brexit politics in pubs

Founder Tim Martin, a big Leave supporter, is under pressure ahead of the AGM over corporate governance concerns

(contd)

Given the amount Tories fetish over the free market, it's an interesting story (with a note that the headline belies the content)

Labour

But for so many of our armed forces, our veterans, and their families who have given and still give so much to us, they are not getting the support they deserve.

Service men and women have faced pay cuts, service accommodation left in disrepair, and they are worried their children are left without the support they need.

We can’t just walk by on the other side while our armed forces, our veterans, and their families aren’t given the unwavering support and respect they deserve.

We are a society that has so much. This is the fifth richest country in the world. It cannot be right that those who have served are sometimes left with so little.

This is our promise to you, our armed forces.

We must and we will have a better deal for service personnel. Better pay, better accommodation, and better support for their families.

And we must make sure that we never again send our soldiers into unnecessary or unjust wars.

Conservatives

Conservatives
@Conservatives
· 1h
ANNOUNCING:

Armed Forces veterans will qualify for a new Railcard giving a third off the cost of train travel. We will continue to support veterans and recognise their service to our country.

Curious that this thread is entitled "End to Tribalism " when the desperation to cling to it is so strong on the same thread.

when the desperation to cling to it is so strong on the same thread.

My life hangs in the balance of who gets in this time, not saying it for sympathy or effect just fact, yeah Im pretty desperate

Climate change deniers, racism deniers - do you also object to those phrases too?

I haven't heard the phrase 'racism deniers'.

I detest the use of 'climate change denial' - it was a direct co-opting of Holocaust Denial. The debate around climate change is ongoing. There is no debate about the reality of the Holocaust.

It doesn't invalidate his view but it does suggest something else quite troubling to me. It's pretty racist for a serious commentator with a big audience to mix up two Muslims with the same name because he can't be troubled to do due diligence. It's "they're all the same" writ large.

Shades of the Nish/Romesh banter that Eshaan Akbar took to new levels on last weeks "Mock The Week".

The debate around climate change is ongoing

It really isnt, consensus has been reached

It doesn't invalidate his view but it does suggest something else quite troubling to me. It's pretty racist for a serious commentator with a big audience to mix up two Muslims with the same name because he can't be troubled to do due diligence. It's "they're all the same" writ large.

Trying to smear Freedland as racist on the basis of mistaken identity is a convenient way of avoiding discussion of his points. And a way of avoiding addressing Labour’s AS problems and its consequences.

Oh look a squirrel.

"My life hangs in the balance of who gets in this time"

Surely this is an argument to abandon tribalism in favour of defeating a common enemy?

I can understand Labour Party apparatchiks hanging onto tribalism because there will be jobs for the boys and girls under a new leader even if Corbyn goes down in flames.

But for people at the sharp end of Tory policy, I must admit that I struggle to understand.

I detest the use of 'climate change denial' - it was a direct co-opting of Holocaust Denial. The debate around climate change is ongoing. There is no debate about the reality of the Holocaust.

It's also possible to accept climate change (given that all the climate has ever done in the Earths history is change you'd have to be a special sort of dimwit not to acknowledge that) whilst questioning how much - if any - is due to human activities.

"Trying to smear Freedland as racist on the basis of mistaken identity is a convenient way of avoiding discussion of his points."

That's really uncalled for tbh.

I've been a pretty consistent supporter of the idea that the existence of antisemitism in Labour something that we have to trust Jewish people on.

But that doesn't give a hard pass to victims of racism who themselves spread racist fake news.

It's also possible to accept climate change (given that all the climate has ever done in the Earths history is change you'd have to be a special sort of dimwit not to acknowledge that) whilst questioning how much - if any - is due to human activities.

Not sure why you have quoted me before this post?

Freedland is lucky that didn't end in court btw.

Sorry if your life hangs in the balance. I've got my own serious shit. Which is why I don't cling to people who make promises that they will make it all fine. Rather why I didn't vote for Brexit.

"The debate around climate change is ongoing. "

Arsedarkly, think it was a reaction to this. Unless you're a climate scientist debating for eg the size of the climate response to a doubling of CO2, the idea that there is a "debate" is straight denialism.

That's really uncalled for tbh.

That’s just how it appears.

I’d say it’s uncalled for to paint a Jewish journalist as Islamophobic over a mistake. There’s nothing in his writings that has ever indicated that to be true, on the contrary he has a strong record on criticising Islamophobia, and is forthright about the prejudice within Jewish and Muslim communities towards the other.