Brexit Arms

[DustyDiamond]

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@Doubletrouble99

I’ve always thought that one of the big pluses of private schools is that they instil a lot of self confidence in pupils (which can spill over into arrogance in some), but I’ve also seen for some moving out of their comfort zone, being challenged and not being spoon fed caused them to give up or drop out.

That's what I don't get about abolishing private schools. Where is the extra £5.6 Bn coming from that you'd need to educate those kids? It already works like a tax on the rich so what's for a leftie not to like? Unless it's just politics of envy of course. Same as scrapping uni fees - and I know it's a horrible system - but if only 17% pay off the debt in full, it's just another tax on higher earners. Nothing for a leftie not to like.

Politics of envy is exactly what it is Megan. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense. Surely a system that ensures that the less well off are helped as much as possible and that those that can afford it pay is the best one. So far Labour have announced plans to give the well off free wi fi, dentil care, free education if their alternative is abolished and would love to abolish private health care so that's a fair few more people added to the already stretched NHS queues. I do hope the Tories will capitalise on this in debates and on social media.

Continuity, I agree with most of what you say about private schools apart from the arrogance bit. I feel that tends to come from the upbringing of the arrogant few not from their schooling. At the prep. school my two went to there was the odd arrogant pupil, but I can only think of 2 or 3 out of a couple of hundred and it definitely came from their parents.
It was always very important for the children to learn good manners, treat everyone equally from the kitchen staff to the head master and have respect for your elders.

Yes it's very similar to the free broadband issue, as Bear says. A freebie for everyone, meaning there is less money to go round for those who really need it. Nuts.

I wouldn’t like a demotivated, underpaid, overstretched State Dentist working on my teeth anyway. So you’re taking away the choice that doesn’t affect anyone else anyway. Sure, I’d travel to the nearest NHS dentist if I absolutely had to, but what about the people who don’t have that option? Their choice to access NHS dentistry is being taken away too.

Surely a system that ensures that the less well off are helped as much as possible and that those that can afford it pay is the best one.

But that's not happening, so something has to change doesn't it?

NHS dentistry is already free to those who need it - I really can’t comprehend the logic of making it free for everyone?

Where do the extra dentists come from? Who pays for them?

But that's not happening, so something has to change doesn't it?

No one is denying that, but equally no one has explained how it’s economically viable to just throw free stuff around for everyone.

My teeth have fallen apart from ill-health and lack of timely treatment.
You can't get an NHS dentist round here and haven't been able to for years. That never used to be the case so something went badly wrong with the system at some point - might even have been under the Blair government?

no one has explained how it’s economically viable to just throw free stuff around for everyone.

I'm waiting for a costed manifesto

You can't get an NHS dentist round here and haven't been able to for years.

Which is exactly my point - how does making band 1 dental treatment free to everyone do anything other than put more strain on that service?

I would imagine the Tory manifesto will be very similar to the Queens speech, which from what I remember wasn't that controversial.

As for trumping the free internet for all:
▫ Does free dental care = the nationalisation of all dentists?
▫ Maybe seizing all private hospitals, their land and bank accounts.
▫ Free driving lessons for all would be a vote winner for the youth.
▫ Obviously when the railways and bus services are nationalised he could offer free public travel for under 25's, over 65's, those on low incomes and disabled people.
▫ Scrapping UC could involve a universal income for all.
▫ On the EU, if better deal isn't agreed with the EU within 3 months then revoke until we have time to have a referendum on if the UK wants to keep negotiating.
▫ A 'review' on scrapping Trident.
▫ A 97% effective tax rate on income over £150,000 because no one needs that amount of money
▫ A ban on owning more than one home.
▫ A maximum £50,000 limit on inheritance.

The list is endless, I could write Corbyns manifesto for him and it will all be paid for by Google and Amazon.

Under Blair where I lived in early 2000s it was impossible to get an NHS dentist locally - I don't know why as I didn't pay a lot of attention back then, so don't know if it was something in particular that his govt did or if it was just a problem in that particular area

I had to register my kids at my old home dentist (a 3 hour drive away) and used that for 5 years

Where I am now (a big village) there's 3 dentists that I know of which all take NHS patients no problem - we all got in straight away - kids get 6 monthly check ups & I get annual, no bother at all

We need a landlady for the next thread btw...
Any takers?!

I have been remiss & neglectful in my stewardship as I've been in bed before 9 most nights & have been steering clear of news & politics in general 😳

DH is a fan of UBI and is otherwise Green minded. He won't be voting for them this time as being a traditional Green he is also pro-Brexit.

For me the problem with UBI replacing UC is that it will not be set at a high enough level to prevent it banging into means testing - housing benefit being the most obvious.

Anywhere it has been trialled it has not been extended to the whole population but rather used as a means to wean people back into regular employment and out of the benefit system.

Atm the basic state pension for a single person is almost double the rate of ESA for a working age disabled person. The contribution based JSA rate is even lower.

My DMIL went on endless computer literacy courses in her late 70s and

early 80s but never got it. So free broadband for her would be wasted, quite apart from her having money to pay for it. My DM (85) can check her email and enjoy photos etc, but can't cope with shopping online, or manage her utilities accounts, so we just do it for her. One Amazon Prime account serves three households and DM is the delivery address for them all. It works quite well for us, but wouldn't for others.

Regarding today's papers, Dominic Lawson and Adam Boulton both wrote interesting columns in the Sunday Times. Lawson suggests the lower paid were economically rational to vote leave, as sterling's decline v the Euro has deterred economic migration, and thus has prompted the strongest increase in low-income wages since the 1990s, but the weakest growth in higher-income professional earnings, both calculated from 2016.

Had to go a have a quick look - it was to do with the introduction of new payment system for NHS dentists in 2006 - it was a crap system and they either had to accept it or opt-out which many did leading to the shortage.

Presumably Labour will review the system as part of their pledge to offer free dental treatment otherwise, as you say there won't be enough dentists to provide it.

Shortage of NHS dentists in certain areas pre-dates Blair. You couldn't get them in Central London and bits of the Home Counties in the 80s.
This I think is the problem with privatisation of an affordable service. A lot of employers offer private dentistry as an employment perk. These sorts of employers tend to have employees who don't need much dental work and are cheap to insure and to treat. If there are enough of them then dentists have no need to treat high maintenance NHS patients.

Private education is the opposite in pricing structure. Private education is more expensive to provide than State because all pupils require at least the basic service and parents of private DC tend to demand way more bang for their buck than the basics.

On State controlled broadband.

Happening atm in Iran:

Crowds of people are pouring out into the streets of #Iran.
The government has cut off the people’s internet, hoping to stop their voices being heard.

Interesting XingMing but relative decline in professional wages is a long term trend and I would assume Government interventions to increase the minimum wage and cut in-work benefits have had the more significant impact on lower end wages.

Overall net migration has not fallen since 2016 and although rEU makes up a slightly smaller fraction of the total I don't think it is significant.

I refuse to pay to read the Sunday Times so you will have to correct me if I am misjudging the depth of the journalism.

I suppose I notice it because DS has been working as a junior chef in a luxury boutique hotel. He started on 5.90 hourly (NMW for his age) but when kitchen porters started leaving for financial reasons, he did a couple of weeks in the dishpit to help at the KP rate (£9.00) then continued cheffing at the same rate. He's not working there any more because his health was suffering from working 75-90 hours per week. Employers are having to pay better to fill the essential but humble jobs.

Our dentist will only see children of private patients on the NHS. And most of the dentists DH (different practice) sees are east Europeans working for a BUPA-owned practice. It suits him as it's only across the road.

Plenty of NHS dentists where I live but it is urban Central Scotland and somewhat lacking in patients with means to access private.

(The NHS Scotland dental contract is different as is their funding model for Uni places which also makes a difference)

For all the Prof Curtice fans:

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Ry60Pzob9pM&feature=emb_logo

A few absolute technical gems. He predicts a higher than average turnout partly because the electoral register will have been newly updated at the start of December. This means it will contain "fewer" dead people who neglect to vote.

If it helps thread research, I have access to Times, Telegraph and Guardian on line. Obviously can't link behind their paywalls, but happy to precis stuff of interest.