Brexit Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Welcome to the Brexit Arms!!

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What makes me grind my teeth is that at least in Buckinghamshire (I don't live there but have family who do), the state schools do not prepare children for the universal 11+ because they are not allowed to, whereas there is no such restriction on private schools which run 11+ boot camps. At the same time, affluent parents of children at the most successful state schools pay for private tuition, costing £XXX, whereas the children from less well-off homes - the ones who would really benefit from the grammar school ethos - start off from a position of massive disadvantage.

I tutored my little niece and she passed, thank goodness, but not everyone can count on that sort of family support.

Howabout, you have a good point. Lack of affordable housing affects everything - it traps people and restricts their choices in terms of education, employment and health.

I can see the risks and disadvantages of grammars. I struggle to see what the advantages are.

GCSE level study is not intellectually demanding for children capable of getting into grammar school. Comps tend to provide a much more diverse learning environment.

I can see the point of specialised 6th form.

I didn't read the pp link but my understanding of the research is that grammar school cohorts perform no better than their equivalent demographics in comprehensive education but in grammar school areas the non-grammar pupils under perform. The same effect applies to streaming.

Evening all - pint of Best please. On a different note - is the LibDem/Green, etc GE 'pact' still a thing?

It's just that in Devon, most constituencies have both Lib Dems and Greens. So as Devon is typically 'off message' I suspect the likely is that the Greens have always had a strong support-base here, that is ever increasing, with a fair few elected reps already.

Anyway, in my constituency the Brexit Party isn't standing, so that 'agreement' appears to be functioning here..

Evening, Hate, it is holding in my constituency which for some mad reason, is on the target list. The LibDem candidate is advertising themselves as the "Liberal Democrat - Unite to Remain" candidate.

Excuse me while I laugh myself silly.

This is a Leave-voting constituency with a massive Conservative majority and the same LibDem candidate actually lost vote share in 2017.

On the plus side, the Greens have stood their candidate down thus saving themselves the £500 deposit they normally kiss goodbye to. Always a silver lining.

Continuity my point is that the labour front bench have been afforded the privilege of an education modelled on top public schools and there they are facing down eton, Harrow etc. All... Ending up at oxbridge (expect dear leader).

As equals.

From the that generation, broadly.

I don't feel grammars should be taken away until comps are fully sorted out , it was only recently that it was well publicised that many comps were failing top 10%. Progress 8 came in etc.

In df day, teachers helped to select bright dc and said which areas they were weak on. As well as looking at grades.
So df was given maths tuition and was fully supported by his primary school to enter the tests and go to grammar school school. His wc parents were horrified. They did not want him to go. They did not support him. It lifted him out of a narrow wc life in Liverpool. Narrow because of the family not because wc life in l Lpool is narrow.

How many dc like my df get that support today and would be able to try for a grammar school without any parental involvement?

I'd suggest a handful because as pp said state primaries won't help them. And in previous posts on the this subject someone did say that their schools do help a little and hey presto... Suddenly more fsm dc are getting in.

I believe in variety, my older dc would fly at grammer. Sadly due to logistics we couldn't get her in. She's in a very good comp and I feel so far she will do well. She's strong bright all rounder. Out of 4 comps around us however the one she's in is the only one I would trust with her. The rest are crap.

Dc 2 is a different kettle of fish with very differently needs. I'm not sure what will be best for her yet. Probably some of really creative school.. Which doesn't exist!!

If every single school can be bought up to scratch and teach each child according to their potential and needs unequivocally... Yes.. Let's dump grammer and private schools.
But comps don't fail because of the existence of private schools and the few grammars left.

The labour front bench have been afforded top eduction by the state and kick it away from others without replacing it with something worthy...

Of their own children.

If every single school can be bought up to scratch and teach each child according to their potential and needs unequivocally... Yes.. Let's dump grammer and private schools.

All you've done is taken the case against Grammar/Private schools and turned it round. That's not very clever either.

No Grammar Schools round here. Not much provision for SEN either, although much improved from the zero provision for higher-functioning SEN 10 years ago.

I don't think Grammars are the same as they were, say, in the 1970s when they stated to be eliminated. For a start a lot of Grammars are Public (which as we know actually bizarrely means Private fee-paying) Schools, they aren't available in every LEA and their seems to be a greater reliance on 'tutoring' and 'preparation' for the 11+ nowadays.

Another pint please, but I can pour my own and leave the money behind the bar.

And Hi Lily - the Lib Dems had a stint of being in charge round these parts and I found the elected MP and next candidates fine. They were in charge of a lot of Local Councils for a lot longer and frankly didn't do any better than the Tory ones and it was hard to tell the difference really. Then a lot of them went Independent, joined by a lot of ex-Tories and then later a few more-centred UKIPs. Hence a lot of Independent Local Cllrs and NOC Councils.

Normally and Historically I'm a Greenie but always still float my vote. My Greenishness comes from a long-held Environmental priority, however as this politically translates into the Green Party in the UK, and because I don't necessarily agree with all the UK Green Party's policies - I already know where my Vote is going - this time.

Also, the encumbent Tory MP, does a good job for the constituency he represents, which makes everything so much easier when evaluating my voting decision.

Up until 2010, our MP was LibDem, Hate, and he was a good constituency MP but LibDem policies have changed radically since then. They just don't resonate with voters around here anymore, and not just on the Brexit issue, hence the declining vote share.

I've given our Remainer Tory MP a tough time over Brexit but she's convinced me - her voting history is proof - that she prizes democracy more so it's a no-brainer.

I understand what you say though about your natural leaning towards the Greens but having to lend your vote this time. Once Brexit is done, hopefully you can vote with both your head and your heart instead of having to choose between the two.

So Boris can propose establishing a £640 million Nature for Climate Fund, leaving our environment in a better condition for the next generation but Corbyn gets criticised by leavers for proposals regarding broadband?

Yes Lily, thank you, my first vote ever cast was for the Ecology Party - my interests in such things pre-dated me turning 10 years old.

I think there's a geographical/socio-economic difference between the Greenish in the SE, drilled down to the specific characteristics of Brighton & Hove, the only UK constituency with a Green MP; and the specific characteristics of the Greenish in the SW.

Just an observation, not a critique.

Not at all Parker - these are just some of the many things we can discuss, debate, vote and ignore - after we get Brexit started, not "done", but started.

Many of Boris’s ideas and proposals are as unrealistic as Corbyn’s.

They could very likely be Parker, I'm not listening to anyone's promises, I'm just voting towards an Hoc that gets "Brexit Started".

If the next GE returns an HoC that "Stops Brexit", then so be it.

Just an HoC that does something is a good start.

Continuity my point is that the labour front bench have been afforded the privilege of an education modelled on top public schools

It’s not a great argument to say “they had it, therefore we should have it” when it’s a system that shows little difference in attainment for pupils but decreases social mobility.

It should be an opportunity to make schooling a level playing field.

Is that the new slogan HateIsNotXing

What do you mean, Arse? You are mixing up the usernames of two separate posters. Why?

Many of Boris’s ideas and proposals are as unrealistic as Corbyn’s.

Which Boris policies are as bad a nationalising the internet and making it free for everyone? Seizing private schools, their grounds, money and assets? Borrowing over a trillion pounds to nationalise everything? A four day working week for everyone except the NHS? Siding with terrorists rather than our allies? Spending hundreds of billions on a defence system then refusing to use it? Extending freedom of movement to the whole world?

The list is endless. Brexit aside I have not heard any proposal from Boris that is ridiculous or unrealistic. Corbyn has been elevated from cloud cuckoo land to the Emperor of an alternative cuckoo universe.

Brexit aside I have not heard any proposal from Boris that is ridiculous or unrealistic.

Are you saying that Brexit is ridiculous and/or unrealistic? I thought you were in favour of it?

Corbyn has been elevated from cloud cuckoo land to the Emperor of an alternative cuckoo universe.

And yet, there seems to be a surprising amount of approval for a lot of the policies? I thought the broadband idea sounded daft but I've heard a lot of people speak in favour of it.

Are you saying that Brexit is ridiculous and/or unrealistic? I thought you were in favour of it?
No, you are just being goady, I was putting Brexit aside because its something remainers and leavers disagree on. You know, so we can have a sensible conversation about party policies.

Oh and can I put a drink behind the bar for @Bearbehind, sounds like she is still getting a hard time by the other side. Money is in the honesty box.

And yet, there seems to be a surprising amount of approval for a lot of the policies?

Many people like stuff that is free. Especially when they dont have to pay for it. Who would have thought it. That is why they are called bribes. Some of us are just very very worried about becoming Venezuelan, more so than free ice cream.

Well yes, I like free stuff that is free but all the same I thought free broadband sounded a very wacky idea when it was announced so I assumed that the media would dismiss it. Instead it became the talking point of the next 24 hours and, as I say, I heard a lot of approval in between the disapproval.

ArseDarkly So what do you think are the pluses of free broadband for all?

Do you mind that business investment drying up due fear of everything being nationalised.
What about pensions being reduced?
Maybe you are not worried that someone with Corbyns political views will have control of our internet?
Do you mind waiting 3 months to have a phone connected?
Would you mind putting all other internet providers out of business?
Do you mind all the middle classes getting free stuff that they can well afford?

You dont think their are other more important things we could spend the money on, like the NHS?
Do you mind the state paying for broadband cables out into the middle of nowhere to private estates at a cost of 6/7 figures each time.
Do you care about the effects of not paying a fair market price for the company?
Do you care about the UK going bankrupt, or is it more important to have everything for free?
How is it going to be paid for, the head of BT said it would cost about £100 Billion.

I mean I have heard many people complain about many things, getting free internet is not most peoples priority.