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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
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Random18 · 07/11/2019 11:53

Cendrillon I hate that I am going to have to vote for extremists of any form.

BUT there are 2 parties that have been taken over. Tories by the Brexit cult and Labour by the hard left.

One appears to be in the pay of the Russians which is seriously damaging to our national security has a leader with absolute no moral integrity.

One has a leader who is a bully and incites hatred.

The other side have some policies that I ak not overly keen on. Bit its very unlikely they will be able to do too much damage in a 5 year parliament.

Much of that time will still be spent on Brexit arguments anyway.

Guess who I think is the lesser of 2 evils?

CendrillonSings · 07/11/2019 11:55

There’s indeed no outcome in this election that allows everyone to have their way. A Labour win now would cement the far left in place for a generation, and that’s an infinitely greater danger than Boris Johnson could ever be if he tried.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 11:58

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
· 34m
NEW: Lord Puttnam giving evidence in Ireland says Lords learned y’day that decision to block Russia report ‘rests entirely’ on Boris Johnson. Puttnam: report blocked because contains info that would call into question legitimacy of referendum. ‘Which Johnson won’t do’

QueenMabby · 07/11/2019 12:01

Not caught up yet but this popped up on my fb feed. Interesting.
www.facebook.com/6622931938/posts/10157187990116939?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

CendrillonSings · 07/11/2019 12:03

BUT there are 2 parties that have been taken over. Tories by the Brexit cult and Labour by the hard left.

Of course both parties have swung towards positions that ten years ago would have been considered extreme. But on a point of fairness - why is there no equivalent of a BXP party to Labour’s left, and why is there one to the Tories’ right?

It’s because the far left doesn’t need a separate extremist pressure party - they’ve already taken over Labour, and it supplies all they need.

But the Tories - despite what’s claimed on here - have not merged with BXP. That’s why BXP is a separate party with a more extreme policy platform that will be actively campaigning against Conservative candidates!

I think a fair person will acknowledge the differences between the parties - it’s Labour that has taken the more extreme turn, hence no electoral competition to its left.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 07/11/2019 12:03

Social democratic principles only seem to be "extreme" in the UK and US. Make of that what you will.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 12:03

There’s indeed no outcome in this election that allows everyone to have their way.

As with every election ever held in the UK - that's hardly an insight.

A Labour win now would cement the far left in place for a generation, and that’s an infinitely greater danger than Boris Johnson could ever be if he tried.

If you say so.

I'm still feeling some sort of hung parliament is going to emerge. Not quite strong enough to ram anything too extreme through, but not quite weak enough to be gone by June.

If the Tories (or Labour) had wised up in 2011 and looked to the future and backed a change to the voting system, we might be looking at a completely different landscape. Although it would be one with a Farage shaped eyesore on the horizon.

Tanith · 07/11/2019 12:04

You complain that Jeremy Corbyn supported the IRA, yet forget to mention the Conservative party member who was actually a member of the IRA.

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/4045346.ira-councillor-welcomed-back-to-tory-bosom/

LouiseCollins28 · 07/11/2019 12:06

On Unite to Remain and the expectation that this will result in "non-extreme MPs" Confused, Ohkay! Within a parliamentary election just how much more extreme can you get than a group of candidates, denying voters the opportunity to vote for other candidates for the express purpose of overturning a direct democratic result.

Random18 · 07/11/2019 12:08

Cendrillon I would say the Tory's are every bit as extreme as the Brexit party now. Not necessarily all the MPs (although some of then) but the party membership most definitely.

They can just hide it better.

Boris Johnson I don't actually consider an extremist. But his principle or lack if them mean that he will pander to the extremists to stay in power.

placemats · 07/11/2019 12:11

This General Election is turning into an action packed blockbuster film. My only reservation is the sequel will be an unmitigated disaster!

TiddleTaddleTat · 07/11/2019 12:11

Haven't caught up properly but...
Why this perpetuation of the idea that corbyn's labour is 'hard left'? How do we define such a thing?

CendrillonSings · 07/11/2019 12:12

I would say the Tory's are every bit as extreme as the Brexit party now.

But come on - why are they two separate and competing parties, but Labour has none to its left? The logic of the situation seems pretty clear.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 12:12

You complain that Jeremy Corbyn supported the IRA

I'd be curious as to how far "support" went ? Was he hiding guns for them, and advising which were the best places to leave bombs ?

Or (as I suspect) was he trying to get the dialogue going which - however distasteful to some - was eventually what was needed to get to where we are now. Which may not be perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than the 70s.

Maybe some posters with better memories than me can "support" my memory that there was a time during the 1980s where to even question the governments stance on Northern Ireland invited a "terrorist sympathiser" sobriquet. Which predates the "anti-semite" or "paedophile" tactic of shutting down debate by decades.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 12:13

McDonnell promises “irreversible shift” of power away from London

Labour will oversee an “irreversible shift” in the centre of political decision-making from London to the North, John McDonnell is expected to vow in his first big speech of the 2019 general election campaign.

The Shadow Chancellor is set to pledge an additional £150bn in a new ‘social transformation fund’, which will be established to “upgrade and expand our schools, hospitals, care homes and council houses”.

Labour plans to spend this fund over the first five years of being in power, McDonnell is expected to announce at the campaign event in his home city of Liverpool.

The key leadership figure will say that Labour’s new ‘national transformation fund’, a “powerful section of the Treasury” will be set up and based in the North of England.

“Our aim as a Labour government is to achieve what past Labour governments have aspired to,” McDonnell will say. “An irreversible shift in the balance of power and wealth in favour of working people.

“That means change means investment on a scale never seen before in this country and certainly never seen before in the North and outside of London and the South East.

“To achieve that objective also requires therefore an irreversible shift in the centre of gravity in political decision making and investment in this country from its location solely in London into the North and regions and nations of our country.”

The Shadow Chancellor will also set out how Labour intends to devolve decision-making from London to the North by breaking up the Treasury, saying: “We’ll carve out part of our national transformation fund for a local transformation fund in each of England’s regions. With money for the devolved governments as well, of course. And that money will be ring-fenced for infrastructure projects decided and developed at a local level.

“With decisions made transparently and democratically in each region about how their fund is allocated. And regional offices of government departments overseen by a board of local county and city council leaders with that board publicly accountable to open meetings of local councillors, trade unions and business representatives. They will be supported by a national transformation fund unit of the treasury.”

“I can confirm that this powerful section of the treasury unit will be based here in the North. At the same time my treasury ministerial meetings will no longer be solely in London. Labour’s treasury ministers will meet outside of London and will have a ministerial office in the North. The centre of gravity of political gravity is shifting away from London.”

“This is where the investment is needed and this is where those decisions on investment need to be made on the ground. Power is coming home. Back to the people. We can only deliver the real change we need by putting power into the hands of communities. Of the people who know their local area best, like those who came up with the tidal barrage idea for the Mersey, which we’ll build.”

McDonnell will explain that the scheme does not solely concern public investment but also the private finance sector, which must be “pulling its weight too” and “be brought in line with the rest of us”.

He will hail “an end to short-termist thinking… that only prices in risks associated with an investment here and now, rather than the potential for a dramatic change in the price of carbon investments leading to significant stranded assets”.

Labour has outlined that the national transformation fund will be funded through issuing government long-dated bonds and spent on capital investment that raises the productive capacity of the UK economy. It will include a Green Transformation Fund and a Social Transformation Fund.

CendrillonSings · 07/11/2019 12:16

McDonnell will explain that the scheme does not solely concern public investment but also the private finance sector, which must be “pulling its weight too” and “be brought in line with the rest of us”.

Nice little threat there from McDonnell. There won’t be any private finance sector once he’s done with us.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 12:16

Sayeeda Warsi
@SayeedaWarsi
·
18m
Honestly Nick
@Conservatives
we lost the moral high ground on racism along time ago.
If we genuinely believe in rooting out bigotry then we should root it out in our own Party too- don’t you think?
Otherwise it’s simply weaponising racism as a political tool 😢

TiddleTaddleTat · 07/11/2019 12:16

Cendrillon
In the interests of fairness , if you are saying that labour is occupying a larger political spectrum than the right-leaning parties, surely that is simply a representation of the gradual shift towards the right among the electorate? Since labour were not voted into power in 2015 or 2017?
And I would argue that the LDs in their current guise with many Tory defectors is now more right-leaning than they previously were. At least as I recall nick clegg being in his 2011 policies (cos I voted for him).

prettybird · 07/11/2019 12:18

The more that Cendrillon froths, the more that I think that she must be concerned that Labour might actually win this election (or at least be the one with the better chance of being in a position to form the government). Grin

And she really demonstrates a lack of confidence in her own party when she posits that a Labour win now would cement the far left in power for a generation Wink

So it's good news really Grin

prettybird · 07/11/2019 12:19

(And I'm not even a Labour supporter any more Wink)

FadingStar · 07/11/2019 12:22

The Tories went to bed with a party with links to the UVF ffs...the murderers of my next door neighbour! How any Tory voter can seriously point to Corbyn as a terrorist sympathiser as if they have the moral high ground here is fucking horrendous and beyond hypocritical.

LouiseCollins28 · 07/11/2019 12:22

My understanding is to put it mildly, rather different on Corbyn and his support for the IRA.

From the "London Labour Briefing" December '84 edition.

“the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

See here for the text

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

CendrillonSings · 07/11/2019 12:24

The more that Cendrillon froths, the more that I think that she must be concerned that Labour might actually win this election (or at least be the one with the better chance of being in a position to form the government).

Of course, I’m concerned - there are a lot of gullible people out there who either think that Labour is a moderate party or that if they are far left then that’s just super. MN’s full of them!

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 12:25

Angus Walker
@anguswalkertalk
·
22h
Labour supporter tackles
@Nigel_Farage
during his visit to Whitehaven

twitter.com/i/status/1192071985712508928

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 12:26

“the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

Ah ... the problem with that is (as my Irish friends noted) was that Britain did not take notice. With successive governments quite happy to count the coffins, and trot out how terrible it all was.

Cue a couple of bombs in the city (and an insurance industry that told the government it wouldn't underwrite any losses) and "ta-da !" instant talks.

Any violence is evil.

Any.