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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Clavinova · 08/11/2019 10:18

Oops, I meant why would a Tory/Lib Dem/remain voter.

Clavinova · 08/11/2019 10:20

According to the Lib Dems everyone knows that Labour want Brexit!

TheElementsSong · 08/11/2019 10:20

Poor C&Pnova and her wordcloud squirrels Grin

Clavinova · 08/11/2019 10:39

Poor C&Pnova and her wordcloud squirrels

Don't pity me yet - I shall only self-combust if Jeremy Corbyn gets the keys to Number 10. Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/11/2019 10:44

Just seen this on twatter

You're going on holiday and you need someone to look after your beloved pet. You have two options, Mr Johnson or Mr Corbyn. Which one would you pick, and why?

You'd have to choose Corbyn right? Grin

HesterThrale · 08/11/2019 10:48

Months ago, I believe Red was saying on here that what we had to worry about, more than Brexit, was getting 5 years of a hard right Tory govt. I can now see the truth in that.

I think we have to play the long game here (as women always seem to have to).

So, i.e, the EU wasn’t perfect, but let’s stay in and help reform it.

And a Lab/LD/rebel alliance govt wouldn’t be perfect, but better than the alternative of a Tory one. Let’s vote the Tories out (if poss) and then work with what we’ve got.

And I agree with QueenMabby that women should use their hard-earned votes.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/11/2019 10:50

Sayeeda Warsi
@SayeedaWarsi
·
21h
I don’t want this #GeneralElection2019 to be about racism.
But if my
@Conservatives
colleagues ex or otherwise want to start taking a moral position & discuss racism Im happy 2 discuss your record of support or not for the many times I’ve fought this battle internally
Your Call

Peregrina · 08/11/2019 10:53

For once Clavinova might be right. Last time those people who voted Labour were told that they had voted for Brexit.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 11:00

YouGov starting up the big guns .... 125 point survey trying to winkle a lot of nuance ... and tailored to constituency.

HesterThrale · 08/11/2019 11:03

Justanother that link you posted...
Johnson admitting on film that the features of EU membership are a great deal.

“Northern Ireland has got a great deal. You keep free movement. You keep access to the single market.”

They all know it. We’re better off in.

mobile.twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1192694594892382208

derxa · 08/11/2019 11:05

You're going on holiday and you need someone to look after your beloved pet. You have two options, Mr Johnson or Mr Corbyn. Which one would you pick, and why?
Johnson would persuade someone else to feed the cat and take no responsibility for it then pretend he had looked after it. Jeremy would have his own ideas about feeding the cat but would have to put the issue to endless committees by which stage the cat would escape out of the cat flap and go to a neighbour who would feed it.

nothingwittyhere · 08/11/2019 11:06

"I shall only self-combust if Jeremy Corbyn gets the keys to Number 10" C&Pinova
Finally a positive reason to vote for the Labour/Unite freak in my Con/Lab marginal!

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 11:12

For once Clavinova might be right. Last time those people who voted Labour were told that they had voted for Brexit.

Technically it would be the LibDems that are right.

This is one of the key deciding factors for me between Labour and LD. Well aside from the fact that Corbyn supports Brexit. I’m not prepared for my vote for Labour to be spun as a vote-for-Brexit.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/11/2019 11:13

I’m not prepared for my vote for Labour to be spun as a vote-for-Brexit.

Currently a vote for Labour is a vote for a PV

TatianaLarina · 08/11/2019 11:19

Currently a vote for Labour is a vote for a PV

And a leader who favours Brexit.

Icantreachthepretzels · 08/11/2019 11:22

Labours position has shifted since 2017. They are very clear that they are offering a second referendum. A vote for Labour is not a vote for brexit and cannot be spun that way this time around. If the Lib Dems are saying that it is - the Lib Dems are the ones who are lying. If the Lib Dems actually want to stop brexit, and not just point score - they need to stop lying about what labour stand for.

Icantreachthepretzels · 08/11/2019 11:23

And a leader who favours Brexit.

So what? He is going to negotiate a much softer version of brexit and then put it to a vote. What he personally will vote for is neither here nor there.

Alsohuman · 08/11/2019 11:24

And a leader who favours Brexit.

A leader who will only get one vote in a PV just like everyone else.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 11:25

One phrase I haven't heard much of lately is respect the referendum Hmm

"Get Brexit Done"/"Get Brexit over the line" does somewhat lose that punch of containing it's own rebuff that using the "R" word had.

I wonder if it's deliberate, or just coincidence ....

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 11:26

And a leader who favours Brexit.

Much like Mrs Thatcher then. Who would happily have left the EEC/EC if she could have. Despite following the party line and campaigning to remain in 1975.

Or is it only complicated to understand if it's Labour ?

Motheroffourdragons · 08/11/2019 11:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Mistigri · 08/11/2019 11:28

I could live with the sort of Brexit Labour might negotiate tbh.

I think that Labour has been shockingly useless on Brexit but it has finally arrived at a reasonable position - it's unfortunately one that it can't articulate easily (not amenable to sound bites) and even if it could, no one would believe them anyway because they've been so utterly crap on the issue for 3.5 years.

DGRossetti · 08/11/2019 11:30

Curious also, that "strong leader" is touted as a massive plus point by a lot of polling until suggestions that leader is Jeremy Corbyn.

3dogs2cats · 08/11/2019 11:32

@RedToothBrush I have been reading these threads for a long time, but only commenting very occasionally over the last few months.
I felt so down and desperate about the state of politics, here and elsewhere. People in high office blatantly lying and serving themselves, smear campaigns and misinformation. I was terrified for Ireland as the Brexit debacle unfolded, could not understand the Conservative tactics, so wanted them to work with the other parties,
I came to Mumsnet thru the Feminist boards. Like you, my family has been seriously affected by Trans issues, with a very vulnerable child almost lost. I found information and support there which helped us find a way through. And I also stumbled onto Westminsterenders.
It has been a revelation to me, to find people properly and respectfully debating the issues and respecting each other’s positions. There may have been spats in the past, before I was reading, but I loved the civility and respect. It has got much more bad tempered lately and I think people have got hurt.
The trans issue is vitally important, it’s not a side issue, it’s not about old white women. It’s about broken lives and mutilated children and extreme bullying of the most vulnerable people in many societies across the world. It’s also about reductionist identity politics, which is definitely an issue to explore.
I’m a Labour Party member, and I should have resigned because of their position on trans issues. I didn’t, I thought I might find the courage to dissent from within, but I haven’t. I also think that the Labour Party got themselves in a proper tangle about Brexit, and that Jeremy Corbyn has been extremely ineffective as a leader.
But I also think that he is a model of truth and decency. And I know that isn’t a popular view here. I think he is a principled man with a moral compass. He doesn’t smear other people,sometimes I have wished he would fight back with all the shit heaped on him, and sometimes his turn the other cheek ness has left good people unsupported, but he’s not, in my view a raging narcissist, I think his idealism is a little scary at times, but I do believe he will genuinely work for the good of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Sadly, I don’t think that is the priority for the Conservatives or The LibDems in their current incarnations.
Please stay with us.
You are brilliant, you have restored my faith in the world. You aren’t right all the time. Half the time, as you know, there isn’t a right, but you have done so much good. If you think your LD candidate is good, I think you should vote for him, but tell him and the local branch your reservations. Change is coming with the trans thing, I am sure. Hang in there red.

TheMShip · 08/11/2019 11:33

A soft Brexit would be ok. There are a lot of pragmatic remain voters who would have been accepting of that sort of compromise.

I am curious, @RedToothBrush, why you have changed your position from over the last year or so. You've consistently argued hard until quite recently that preventing a 5 year Tory majority was the most important thing. From what you write lately, I get the impression that for you, gender self id now trumps that. What's changed in your thinking?