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Brexit

Westminstenders: Dissolved.

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/11/2019 19:44

Parliament has formally been dissolved. We are now officially in an election period including purdah and spending limits. Not that all the parties haven't got campaign material out already to bypass the rules, making the rules a complete farce. And the government has made some very dodgy adverts about the fund for towns, 90% of which just happen to be marginals.

The Tory Campaign has got off to an interesting start with a dead cat dog whistle against Grenfell where many well educated people lived (Inc an architect), privately owned their property and just happened to be white. And fast asleep. I'm not sure about you but I don't tend to have huge amounts of 'common sense' when I'm snoring.

Apologies have of course been made. In true Trumpian / Bannon style. But the whistle was blown and made its desired point to its target audience. Expect many more examples before we get to the end of this campaign.

Of course the same day it was made public that the government have blocked the publication of a report into Russian Electoral Interference. Which is in no way connected to the massive amount of donations the Tory Party has been receiving lately and who Boris Johnson hangs out with.

This election is all about breaking 'The Red Wall' and the Tories taking Northern seats. So everyone between Birmingham and Cumbria is going to be particularly fed up by 12th December at people from London coming out with ridiculous stereotypes, and telling them how to vote. We await Corbyn and Johnson adopting flat caps and vowels whilst drinking a pint of bitter or mild.

As usual we've had the candidate selection process throw up a few curve balls including forcing cabinet minister Alun Cairns to resign as Welsh Secretary on the day the tories launch their campaign. Its become very clear from the list of Tory MPs who aren't standing that the party has officially split and 'one nation conservatism' is merely now a slogan Johnson throws around to pretend that the hard right of the party hasn't slung out or forced out all the moderates. On the Labour side we have the usual rows at factions in local parties fighting or being really upset at a London candidate being parachuted in.

Farage isn't standing but the Brexit Party apparently is, despite calls for an electoral pact with the Tories. Whether local parties get the memo from Leave.eu and CCHQ we will find out in time. The LDs, Greens and Plaid seem to be consolidating a Remain pact in some seats but this still splits the vote with Labour which will be a problem in some areas.

Johnson is apparently standing in Uxbridge. This does leave us with the possibility he could yet lose his seat. Swinson's seat is also far from a safe one. Corbyn will likely be safe but Islington did back the LDs as the 1st Party at the Euros with the assistance of some very pissed off Labour members.

Nothing is certain about the next 6 weeks apart from the fact it will throw up some shocks and leave us all shouting at the telly at some point.

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RedToothBrush · 07/11/2019 16:59

And I feel better for getting it off my chest.

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Songsofexperience · 07/11/2019 17:02

It's ironic as a friend said to me last week that she was far too stupid and ignorant to be a politician. She said it was better to leave it to experts who knew what they were talking about rather than someone like here.

I wonder if this kind of reasoning coupled with the general incompetence prevalent in politics nowadays might drive people to support an AI government in the future...
It science fiction now of course but who knows in 30 years or so?

tobee · 07/11/2019 17:03

I don't know what can be done about the conundrum where one believes in democracy but have to take into account candidates want to be elected; therefore have a job.

Makes me even more worried about having elected judiciary a la USA

dreichwinter · 07/11/2019 17:05

There are plenty of woke numpties in the Lib Dems but there are also plenty of sensible people who don't believe people can actually change sex.
I would expect the same to be true of both Labour, the conservatives and the SNP.
It is another issue that impacts all parties.

I still reckon that Brexit is the biggest issue to deal with and other magical thinking issues can be dealt with after that.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 17:05

I can have sensible discussions with hard-line Brexiteers and agree with them on many issues which largely centre on this idea that representation and rights in practice no longer have meaning or effect.

If you were to go back in time, when the clamour for suffrage was unstoppable, and you were a take-the-long-view sort of person, and you were tasked with setting in motion a plan to slowly undo all the "damage" done by allowing the unwashed to vote, it's impossible not to believe this is it just coming to fruition.

I'll be honest, if it is, fair play - it's the most successful establishment plan ever.

There's still that nagging fact that England is still wearing the Norman cloak of 1066 quite comfortably.

tobee · 07/11/2019 17:10

Maybe dreich. But when you get an email reply like that when you're wanting to actively support and give money to a party at the time of general election?!?! Good grief!

The way that that email is phrased it's like they're turning you down for a job!

Aren't they trying to get us to vote for them? The arrogance and ignorance is quite breathtaking!

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 17:10

Honestly no party has my interests at heart and all wish to actively harm me in one way or another. I don't know that there is a least worst option.

I don't want to sound provocative, but this is middle-England victim complex talking. Of course there is a least worst option. And you can always choose not to vote (a choice that some Britons do not get to make).

It is not going to be a very talented parliament. So vote tactically and hope that it's a short parliament in which people have to meet in the middle and compromise.

FadingStar · 07/11/2019 17:10

Agree with everything you said Red. I'm in NI and our parties aren't much better.

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 17:13

I think people in NI have a much bigger issue with representation than English voters.

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 17:15

Womens rights ? Completely trashed

Women's rights are under threat, but completely trashed? Please. This sort of hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

FadingStar · 07/11/2019 17:18

I'm in a Sinn Fein safe seat. For me this election is all about remaining in the EU - that is the priority. But would I be happy to see women's rights sacrificed at the same time? No way.

A lot of people in NI no longer vote so tribally...my own DH has been a DUP voted, a UUP voter AND a Sinn Fein voter. He's not alone.

TheElementsSong · 07/11/2019 17:20

Ah, fuck. At this rate I'm going to have to vote for the BXP Sad

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 17:21

One question that appears to have no answer (maybe Andrew Wiles needs to get on it) is how much is a vote worth ?

And that's not me being simple. Since the disgrace of people being unlawfully denied their vote in June, it seems that for all the talk of how priceless a vote is a better word would be worthless.

Here's another story about a casual "oops" enfranchisement snafu

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-50329491

A council that wrongly warned thousands of voters they would not be able to vote in the general election has been criticised for the blunder.

Swindon Borough Council admitted nearly 3,000 voters were contacted in error.

(contd).

When (or if ...) the EU non-voters get their cases heard, I bet the court determines that no compensation of any form is appropriate. After all, a vote is worth nothing.

Oh, and the results, of course, stand.

Given that there may be more than a few people unable to vote - possibly on official advice not to travel, if the weather turns parky, this is not a good state of affairs.

derxa · 07/11/2019 17:22

I still reckon that Brexit is the biggest issue to deal with and other magical thinking issues can be dealt with after that. I think you're right.
Anyway just vote for the least worst because you have given it a lot of thought. It's the only weapon we have at this point.

DGRossetti · 07/11/2019 17:23

Women's rights are under threat, but completely trashed? Please. This sort of hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

Hyperbole ?

From my gnarly male view, it seems they are worse than 30 years ago. We've gone backwards.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 17:23

Ian Fraser
@Ian_Fraser
· 6h
in the light of #JewishChronicle's front page, historian and @JewishTelegraph columnist Prof Geoffrey Alderman offers his perspective of allegations of antisemitism in Labour

twitter.com/i/status/1192401582421413893

Hoooo · 07/11/2019 17:23

There will be holding of my nose on GE day.

FadingStar · 07/11/2019 17:27

From my gnarly male view, it seems they are worse than 30 years ago. We've gone backwards.

100% agree. It's terrifying how easily men can withdraw women's basic rights. They even manage to get some women's support in doing so. The LibDems getting any semblance of power would scare me to death. And I would love to see Article 50 revoked.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 07/11/2019 17:29

Worth watching the GQ interview with Bercow, love his impression of Tony Benn

MockersthefeMANist · 07/11/2019 17:31

Getting worried about Sajid Javid's upcoming GCSEs. His Maths is dodgy and now I'm concerned about his Geography:

"We will invest in the whole country, from Manchester to Mid-Lothian."

...who tore the pages out of Sajid's Atlas? Was it you, Gove?

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2019 17:32

There are plenty of woke numpties in the Lib Dems but there are also plenty of sensible people who don't believe people can actually change sex.

^I would expect the same to be true of both Labour, the conservatives and the SNP.
It is another issue that impacts all parties.^

It doesn't matter if 99% of the membership aren't woke numpties and only 1% are if the 99% keep their mouths shut and don't speak out and challenge it.

What's the statement about good men doing nothing?

Ultimately this is my problem.

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BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 17:33

Maybe it's a matter of assessing which candidate / party would do the least long term damage if they are in for the next 5 years.
For me, that would be a GB No Deal after transition

Then the following GE vote the buggers out, so another lot can undo the bits you hated

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 17:34

that would be STOPPINg a GB No Deal after transition
< shouldn't type at supper ! Blush >

Mistigri · 07/11/2019 17:35

From my gnarly male view, it seems they are worse than 30 years ago. We've gone backwards.

This is obviously bollocks.

For a start, 30 years ago, only about half of female workers were entitled to maternity leave (extended to all workers in 1993 to bring the U.K. into line with EU).

There are some aspects of women's rights that are at risk, but the idea that women's rights have been trashed in the last 30 years is really pretty ignorant.

RedToothBrush · 07/11/2019 17:38

Womens rights ? Completely trashed

Women's rights are under threat, but completely trashed? Please. This sort of hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

If you replace sex with gender then the definition of women ceases to exist.

Thus you can not defend women's sport, you can not defend women in a prison with rapists (who still have their tackle) and you can't defend women's representation in things like politics when one of the barriers about women in politics centre around childbearing ability rather than gender stereotypes.

That's the problem.

Women's rights are undermined to the point that they become meaningless in practice.

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